Will the UK become a third world country?

[Shogun]

I've traveled a lot and lived in a lot different country's and seen how a lot of other country's behave,religions nonsense and dogma seems to hold a lot of third world country's back,some of the third world have vast natural wealth but due to ignorance and unstable governments they are to busy killing each other and making war on their neighbors,we will never be like that we are to well established as a governmental stable system,we are envied through out the world for our system of law and stable government,I get real mad when I listen to people dragging this country down,why do so many want to come here its not for the weather that for sure.

[Alien52]

I've traveled a lot and lived in a lot different country's and seen how a lot of other country's behave,religions nonsense and dogma seems to hold a lot of third world country's back,some of the third world have vast natural wealth but due to ignorance and unstable governments they are to busy killing each other and making war on their neighbors,we will never be like that we are to well established as a governmental stable system,we are envied through out the world for our system of law and stable government,I get real mad when I listen to people dragging this country down,why do so many want to come here its not for the weather that for sure.

 

You might have noticed a couple of European wars in the last century.

[ronthenekred]

With the safety net getting smaller and smaller and more people becoming destitute will more of the UK become a third world country?

 

 

I'm disappointed..there isn't a poll.

[Anna B]

It isn’t much different than before the crash, with some people trying to live within their means and other people trying to live the dream life by taking on more debt than they can afford. The country is still spending more than it can afford and there still seems to be an obsession with house price growth and economic growth which both require more debt.

 

I'm surprised you think this. Surely the advent of 14 food banks in Sheffield alone indicates that something is seriously wrong - and a lot of the cuts such as the house under-occupancy rule haven't even kicked in yet. There's no doubt that it's the poorest who are feeling it first, but it is surely climbing up the social scale.

As for the house thing, the obsession seems to be more to do with negative equity, subsequent debt and the inability to sell or downsize. Throw homelessness into the mix and it's no wonder it's an obsession - people are very worried.

 

That’s always been the case, when was there ever a time in history when everyone was equal? A few hundred years ago the land was owned by a smaller group of people, they live in castles and on huge estates whilst the rest live in poverty, things have improved and more of us own the land and there is less poverty.

 

I agree that there has always been inequality, and still is. People have had to fight the wealthy every step of the way to achieve just a few crumbs off the table, but the post war world was, I think, making strides to overcome inequality with much more success than we have seen in the past. The welfare state and equal opportunities for all regardless of colour or class was moving us towards a better world. This has now been stopped in it's tracks. If you want to see what the result of that will be, look at India. Our support for third world countries wasn't working well partly because we refused to cancel their debt and for other political reasons which is the subject of a whole new thread, but was at least a move in the right direction.

 

Debt is what has driven our country forward without which there would be more poor people. We could never afford those things without debt, debt enabled us to build the NHS, schools, armed forces, pay for police and public services, we just took on too much debt and spent more than was sensible so now they need cutting back.

 

You seem to be arguing against yourself here. You now say we need debt, it is inevitable. Politicians may have spent too much, but they have wasted Billions, and not on public services which have always seemed stretched. Remember the ill-fated NHS computerisation scheme? Other schemes have been similarly mismanaged We are top heavy with politicians and management whose only role in life seems to be to micro-manage and to interfere thus ensuring themselves jobs. I worked in education and can tell you first hand of money being wasted hand over fist and not going where it was needed.[i

 

]That’s an inevitable consequence of over population and depletion of the world’s resources.[/i]

 

It seems to be taken for granted that populations will rise inexorably. This is not necessarily the case. The more educated, the more guarenteed healthy surviving children, the more women will insist on birth control. It's in our own interest to see that this happens in third world countries. Our population is actually falling, and all it takes to maintain populations at there current levels is for women to have only two children.

The current form of Capitalism puts a huge strain on resources as it relies on ever increasing consumption to maintain its grip, one of the main reasons it needs to change.

 

You could be right, that can only change if human nature changes, if people become less greedy, less envious, less jealous we might survive.

 

I believe Humans have a built in instinct/need for equality and fairness that should be encouraged and nurtured. It's fear that makes them greedy, a fear of being left with nothing, a survival instinct takes over. Banish the fear and you might just banish the greed. However, again, the current capitalist system encourages a competitiveness and a 'winner takes all' mentality which is the epitomy of greed. This comes to the point where major corporations would rather see the earth become a cess pit of industrial waste and decline than work in a spirit of co-operation to cure world wide problems like pollution etc.

 

 

If debt is written off everything you are unhappy about will get worse, unemployment will rise faster, poverty will affect more people, social unrest will increase and gap between rich and poor will still exist.

 

I admit to being on shaky ground here. I think everyone is, for as far as I know, it hasn't been tried on this scale. But ask yourself this, who do we owe the money to? Does anybody really know? Would it be the same banks we are lending Billions to? Is it a good idea to have a world economy based on gambling and fiat money? With crooks in charge?

As for the situation getting worse, after, God forbid, another world (possibly nuclear) war, what was left (if anything) would have to co-operate to enable mankind to exist, survive and start again, hopefully having learned a few lessons on the way.

 

Wouldn't it be better to co-operate now to stop that ever happening?

 

---------- Post added 09-03-2013 at 17:22 ----------

 

There must be something or alot of them wouldn't be third world countries. You might not think we do wealth distribution well in this country but a trip to India for example where you have slums and immense wealth only a few miles apart will show we aren't that bad.

 

We don't suffer from extreme weather either.

 

Weather apart, the main difference between here and India is the Welfare state.

 

If the Billionaires in India paid their tax (and I would suggest at 50% at least,) they would be able to set something similar up, and lift more and more people out of poverty.

 

Bare in mind there are more millionaires and billionaires per head of population in India than in any other country in the world.

[*_ash_*]

We are indeed clever and industrious, but what makes you think that the people in the third world are not also?

 

It's all about opportunity. The majority there never get the chance to shine, they are too busy trying to survive, and that may happen here. Since the introduction of £9,000 tuition fees many are now choosing not to go to University because of the debt, how many would-be geniuses are among them? The next James Dyson perhaps? Or maybe the kid with the answers?

 

People who choose not to go to university still use clean drinking water to flush their turds.

 

Unemployment will rise, and those in work will find their wages effectively cut, and job insecurity will be taken advantage of by employers, (who, to be fair, will be competing in international markets.) Inflation will mean more and more people will be on the breadline and below it. The welfare safety net is being eroded so we will be seeing real third world poverty and homelessness affecting more and more people.

 

It's a funny kind of erosion. (see Guardian figures here)

[MrSmith]

[/i]

 

I admit to being on shaky ground here. I think everyone is, for as far as I know, it hasn't been tried on this scale. But ask yourself this, who do we owe the money to? Does anybody really know?

 

 

 

Anyone with a pension, Government bonds, Insurance companies, Building societies, Investment trusts, Private individuals, premium bonds, national saving. The money you and I have saved and put into some of the above is used by the government with a promise to pay us back with interest; if it’s written off we don’t get our investments saving back or our pensions.

[ricgem2002]

Anyone with a pension, Government bonds, Insurance companies, Building societies, Investment trusts, Private individuals, premium bonds, national saving. The money you and I have saved and put into some of the above is used by the government with a promise to pay us back with interest; if it’s written off we don’t get our investments saving back or our pensions.

take the blinkers off mate iceland seem to be doing well out of it http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/14/iceland-investment-grade-status

[AdamSmith]

With the safety net getting smaller and smaller and more people becoming destitute will more of the UK become a third world country?

 

we already are a third world country! half the third world are here already:gag:

[ricgem2002]

we already are a third world country! half the third world are here already:gag:

where the like button when you need it

[MrSmith]

take the blinkers off mate iceland seem to be doing well out of it http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/14/iceland-investment-grade-status

 

 

Iceland haven't written of government debt, nor do they intend to write off government debt.