Are our inner cities isolating the remaining indigenous populous?

[harvey19]

It depends what you mean by 'adapt' to it. I certainly don't believe Britons moving to Spain should be forced to eat paella, compelled to learn the language and become Catholics although I can appreciate why that might be helpful from the Spaniards point of view.

 

I certainly do believe that incomers should respect the indigenous culture and partake of those aspects of it which appeal to them and just as importantly be allowed and welcomed to do so.

 

Over time integration will occur just as it has already between the Afro Caribbean community I hail from and native Britons, I remember growing up when that seemed a very remote possibility.

 

Boyfriday I think we are in complete agreement.

[boyfriday]

Boyfriday I think we are in complete agreement.

 

 

---------- Post added 14-03-2013 at 16:18 ----------

 

I wonder how many things that are considered part of the UK culture that some are so worried about were, in fact, introduced or influenced by immigrant communities in the first place?

 

For example, how British are many of our Christmas traditions? (Genuine question)

 

Imagine the furore if, in the future, we get a wave of immigrants who don't like to eat our traditionally British cuisine of Chicken Tikka Masala and Donner Kebabs?

 

Oh my god, that would have had Bernard Manning throwing up his pelvis!

 

It's a good point though, traditions and cultures transition over time. What I find peculiar my children regard as perfectly normal, their children will no doubt have even more different ideas.

 

Resisting change just for the sake of it is never a good idea in my opinion.

[retep]

No need to wonder old boy, they clamped down on 'students' applying for visas to attend bogus colleges. With the best will in the world even you couldn't claim that Sheffield University ran bogus courses.

Why would Oxford University have any interest in promoting Sheffield University, one of their competitors? If you were going to accuse Oxford Economics of anything it should be under-egging Sheffield's pudding.

 

I made no mention of bogus courses, you seem to have made that link, something lurking in your mind perhaps.

Was it just bogus colleges.

 

Very detached

 

http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/aboutus/Pages/default.aspx

[gnvqsos]

Yes I do agree.

Would you agree that anyone coming to this country chooses this country because of its culture etc and should therefore adapt to it. The same as people from here who go to live in Spain for example.

 

The best solution is to fuse cultures,selecting the very best from old and new.If you listen to the best music it is eclectic in its influences,with many classical composers picking folk melodies as a basis for more complex works,and artists such as Paul Simon and Peter Gabriel using African backing groups.

[johncocker]

Do you have any evidence of 'white natives being forced to leave their homelands'?

 

aren't Devon, Cornwall Wales and Scotland part of the UK any more? Do they not

 

 

constitute British homelands?

 

google white flight to devon for starters

 

 

Like the British Indian Army, the Polish airmen and the Gurkhas?

 

india was next aftre burma the indians were fighting for more than britain.

did't poland get us into ww2:loopy:

no disrespect to the gurkhas but if you could get in the british army you'd won the nepali equivalent of the lotto.

You really need to learn to apply some moderation and more temperate language. using the word some may help you to present a more truthful picture of the UK.

 

e.g. some native Britons despise what is happening to the country.

 

Unless, of course, you labour under the sad delusion that every British native agrees with you (which I am fairly sure you don't, as most people are not that narcissistic or megalomaniacal).

 

 

pedantic garbage

 

 

 

 

The claim was not about ex-pats on holiday - please don't shift the goalposts if you don't have an answer. The point was about permanent ex-pat communities who do not integrate and seek to create 'little Englands' abroad.

 

so expats in spain are living of the spanish welfare system ,most of them are retirees bringing money into the country:hihi:

 

So, in light of that clarification, how and why is it a stretch to make the obvious comparisons to the selfsame phenomenon that so irks you when it is practised on our shores?

 

 

 

Well, I, for one, do not know any of that. I don't even agree with it. So your claim that everyone knows what you are claiming is looking a little shaky isn't it? Perhaps it is time to try out that word some that I mentioned earlier.

your being pedantic again

 

I am more than happy with diversity and multi-culturalism thanks, as I am well aware of the massive benefits, both economic and cultural, that immigration brings to this country. I am also happy that many UK citizens are allowed to live happily in various parts of the world whether they choose to integrate or not.

 

can you provide links to these massive benefits /?

 

---------- Post added 15-03-2013 at 05:27 ----------

 

An article here about a woman who feels 'like a stranger where I live' many other people on here have also shared the same sentiment, so our inner cities isolating the indigenous populous?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9831912/I-feel-like-a-stranger-where-I-live.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

"integration" cannot happen when there are almost no British people around to integrate to.

 

the majority in this country wether you like or not belive that immigration needs to be reduced by raising the bar that people move over here with and reducing pull factors that encourage people to come.

How can someone feel at home if most the people working in shops are foreigners and they hear very little English when on a bus?

 

we've gone from integrated diversity to international transience,

 

 

btw I'don't no wether or not you've ever been to china but if you told the average chinese person that a medium sized city was going to be 55% black you'd have a revolution that would put chairman mao to shame

 

 

 

it is a question of Space not Race. All the pros and cons, all the tit for tat on here won't alter the fact that we are a small island. We have terrible problems at present coping with those already here. Why do some people want us to be swamped out and all living on top of each other? Our vital services are already under pressure.

..

[mikem8634]

 

google white flight to devon for starters

 

I asked for evidence that they were being forced to leave their homelands not choosing to live in Devon.

 

 

 

india was next aftre burma the indians were fighting for more than britain.

did't poland get us into ww2:loopy:

no disrespect to the gurkhas but if you could get in the british army you'd won the nepali equivalent of the lotto.

 

If you use the memory of soldiers fighting and dying for Britain to back up your spurious immigration claims at least have the decency to acknowledge that some of those soldiers were immigrants, foreigners and even (now take a deep breath before reading this) Muslims, without casting aspersions on their motives. If the Gurkhas and the British Indian volunteers had a modicum of self-interest in their motivations it is perfectly understandable and acceptable and undermines their bravery, sacrifice and committment to the British/Allied cause not one jot.

 

Are you really belittling the contribution the Polish Airmen made to the Battle of Britain and at the same time somehow blaming Poland for being invaded?

 

 

pedantic garbage

 

The questioning of inaccurate and sensationalistic statments is far from pedantic.

 

 

so expats in spain are living of the spanish welfare system ,most of them are retirees bringing money into the country:hihi:

 

Sorry John, but you are shifting the goalposts again. The point you so unconvincingly laboured was about integration. Now you are chucking benefits into the mix in order to obfuscate a little. Last time you avoided the point by claiming it was about ex-pats on holiday.

 

So, I'll ask again in the hopes of a precise answer free of swerves and shimmies -

 

The claim was not about ex-pats on holiday or anything to do with benefits - please don't shift the goalposts if you don't have an answer. The point was about permanent ex-pat communities who do not integrate and seek to create 'little Englands' abroad.

 

So, in light of that second bout of clarification, how and why is it a stretch to make the obvious comparisons to the selfsame phenomenon that so irks you when it is practised on our shores?

 

your being pedantic again[/b]

 

No I'm really not. I am showing how imprecise your application of language is and exposing your tendency for sensationalism, overstatement and hyperbole.

 

can you provide links to these massive benefits /?

 

Unlike you I will, indeed, provide some links, rather than just telling you what to Google - here you go -

 

A couple of many relating to the NHS -

http://www.historyextra.com/feature/how-immigration-saved-british-institution

http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcare-network/2011/apr/19/government-immigration-cap-nhs-workforce-healthcare

 

...relating to education and the economy -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/mar/04/international-students-boost-local-economies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17192514

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/13/immigration-entrepreneurs

 

...cultural benefits are all around us in the theatre, music, film, food and sport -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Farah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Ennis

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/britains-debt-to-immigrants-1194010.html (admittedly from 1998 but still very relevant)

http://www.britishfuture.org/articles/news/world-food-night/

 

I am well aware that you can (and probably will nonetheless) find just as many links relating to perceived negatives, however, that does not negate the fact that there are massive positives as displayed above.

 

Also, don't forget if they can come, we can go. There are millions of UK citizens enjoying the privilege of life in other countries around the globe. Emigration is a benefit related to immigration.

 

 

 

"integration" cannot happen when there are almost no British people around to integrate to.

 

the majority in this country wether you like or not belive that immigration needs to be reduced by raising the bar that people move over here with and reducing pull factors that encourage people to come.

How can someone feel at home if most the people working in shops are foreigners and they hear very little English when on a bus?

 

we've gone from integrated diversity to international transience,

 

 

btw I'don't no wether or not you've ever been to china but if you told the average chinese person that a medium sized city was going to be 55% black you'd have a revolution that would put chairman mao to shame

 

 

 

it is a question of Space not Race. All the pros and cons, all the tit for tat on here won't alter the fact that we are a small island. We have terrible problems at present coping with those already here. Why do some people want us to be swamped out and all living on top of each other? Our vital services are already under pressure.

..

 

Sigh... just more inaccurate sensationalism and hyperbole as exemplified perfectly in the claim that there are 'almost no British people around'. Simply nonsense.

[MrSmith]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No I'm really not. I am showing how imprecise your application of language is and exposing your tendency for sensationalism, overstatement and hyperbole.

 

 

 

Unlike you I will, indeed, provide some links, rather than just telling you what to Google - here you go -

 

A couple of many relating to the NHS -

http://www.historyextra.com/feature/how-immigration-saved-british-institution

http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcare-network/2011/apr/19/government-immigration-cap-nhs-workforce-healthcare

 

...relating to education and the economy -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/mar/04/international-students-boost-local-economies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17192514

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/13/immigration-entrepreneurs

 

...cultural benefits are all around us in the theatre, music, film, food and sport -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Farah

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Ennis

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/britains-debt-to-immigrants-1194010.html (admittedly from 1998 but still very relevant)

http://www.britishfuture.org/articles/news/world-food-night/

 

I am well aware that you can (and probably will nonetheless) find just as many links relating to perceived negatives, however, that does not negate the fact that there are massive positives and displayed above.

 

 

.

Yet you post links to other people opinions as evidance to support the persceived benifits that don’t out way the negatives.

[gnvqsos]

Yet you post links to other people opinions as evidance to support the persceived benifits that don’t out way the negatives.

 

Is this meant to make sense?

[esme]

Mod Note

 

Posts insulting other users have been removed along with all references to the, keep it civil please

[Green Web]

it certainly isnt that i dont like others cultures, and i thank you not to infer i do as you dont know me, i stated facts about the east end i lived in before i left, and only stated things i witnessed or had happen to me, in no way does that mean i dont like 'others' as you put it , i have a valid point about the area changing, it most definately has

 

---------- Post added 11-03-2013 at 01:35 ----------

 

 

 

i quoted myself to add another few lines, im happy to have a serious chat on the issue but if you're just going to be silly i'll not bother

 

The facts are that the east-end has less crime now than ever before, which is mostly due to 'others' living there where alcohol is forbidden and it's different demographics.

 

---------- Post added 17-03-2013 at 23:10 ----------

 

They'll lead the way in dance electronica?

 

Exactly, supposing Detroit still had its motor industry with full employment, white people other than Eminem and Richie Hawtin AKA Plastikman, we'd probably have no Derick May or Carl Craig as they'd be in work instead of been bored at home making techno and no empty factories to hold raves in, and the most famous rapper in the world would be black.

 

---------- Post added 17-03-2013 at 23:18 ----------

 

the migrants from the 50,s, 60,s and 70,s made lives for themselves and their families, they worked hard and contributed to the country and also the areas they settled in, many working times and hours the english wouldnt have worked, they took as much pride in their areas and anyone else, i think today its a very different story

 

---------- Post added 11-03-2013 at 01:49 ----------

 

 

 

what you've listed there wasnt just indicitive of the east end though was it?

 

Yes but since the influx of the 'others' you dislike they've ensured it's not an epidemic as they don't drink alcohol and behave more civil, the facts are until 'others' moved in most of the east-end was more grim than the whole of the industrial north.