Universal Credit

[El Cid]

If you put people in institutions they become institutionalised, that is, they cannot function outside the institution.

 

 

Isnt that what benefits are, a trap?

[kidneystone]

The next step is to build huge complexes for those people incapable of managing their free money, a bit like army barracks in which everything is provided leaving them with no need for money.

 

I think that Mr Smith would be quite happy to put all benefit claiments into a getto and feed them once a day on bread and water. I think he doesn't live in the real world

 

If that’s the impression you get from my posts then your brain is clearly very small.

 

Mr Smith cannot see anybody else's point of view except his own and if you disagree with him he just insults you.

He would make a great conservative prime minister

 

You haven't given a point of view or tried to take part in the discussion, you just came on to have personal dig at me.

 

A bit like you having a go at "people incapable of managing their free money"

[MrSmith]

A bit like you having a go at "people incapable of managing their free money"

 

You do understand the concept of a discussion forum, people post an OP and title and we the members discuss it. And I’m just offering a solution the problem that faces people that are incapable of managing their free money.

 

Do you have anything at all that is relevant to the OP or discussion.

[kidneystone]

You do understand the concept of a discussion forum, people post an OP and title and we the members discuss it. And I’m just offering a solution the problem that faces people that are incapable of managing their free money.

 

Do you have anything at all that is relevant to the OP or discussion.

 

So your idea is to build special places and put them all together. Hitler had similar ideas to you with his ghettos.

 

State of social exclusion……the social situation of any group of people who are segregated in some way from the mainstream of a society or culture, resulting in discrimination or restriction of opportunity

[MrSmith]

So your idea is to build special places and put them all together. Hitler had similar ideas to you with his ghettos.

 

State of social exclusion……the social situation of any group of people who are segregated in some way from the mainstream of a society or culture, resulting in discrimination or restriction of opportunity

 

That’s a no then, you have nothing to contribute to the thread other than wild unsubstantiated accusation.

[TeaFan]

So they know how to pay their gas bill and electricity bill and food but they don't know how to pay rent?

 

Lots of people have support workers who help them set up direct debits. Many others simply go without electricity and gas for much of the week. There are plenty of people with mental health problems or learning disabilities in Sheffield who, as I type, will be sitting at home in the dark in the freezing cold because they have genuine difficulties managing money.* Hey, why not let's evict them as well?

 

 

* I know this having worked with many over the years.

 

---------- Post added 13-03-2013 at 22:04 ----------

 

Minister Steve Webb said: "We currently pay housing benefit directly to one million people in the private sector and that works pretty well.

 

"We are trying to treat people in council houses the same way, but we want to get it right."

 

 

So people in council houses aren’t as smart as people in private sector houses.

 

Due to sharp decreases in the social housing supply over the last 30 years, the allocation of social housing has become increasingly based on level of need. So the social housing population is overall a lot needier than the population in the private rented sector.

 

---------- Post added 13-03-2013 at 22:10 ----------

 

Why is there no stigma attached to being judged so irresponsible that you will use money provided to keep a roof over your head on other things, but there is a stigma attached to being judged so irresponsible that you'll waste money provided for essentials on booze, fags or drugs?

 

Either they can manage the money we give them or not, they can't have it both ways.

 

Lots of people fail to manage their weekly or fortnightly benefits very well. But usually the worst that happens is that they go hungry for a day or two or are cold - these are bad enough and sometimes it will result in a hospital admission for hypothermia. But if you don't pay your rent you become homeless and that is a whole lot worse, and homelessness has been shown to have such a long-term negative impact on people that by making people homeless you are just making the situation even worse in the future.

 

That's why deliberately stoking homelessness is such an unbelievably stupid idea.

[MrSmith]

 

Due to sharp decreases in the social housing supply over the last 30 years, the allocation of social housing has become increasingly based on level of need. So the social housing population is overall a lot needier than the population in the private rented sector.

 

 

Lots of people fail to manage their weekly or fortnightly benefits very well. But usually the worst that happens is that they go hungry for a day or two or are cold - these are bad enough and sometimes it will result in a hospital admission for hypothermia. But if you don't pay your rent you become homeless and that is a whole lot worse, and homelessness has been shown to have such a long-term negative impact on people that by making people homeless you are just making the situation even worse in the future.

 

That's why deliberately stoking homelessness is such an unbelievably stupid idea.

 

That’s a good point, but it does highlight a need for change, having thousands of vulnerable people that are incapable of managing the money they are given doesn’t make a lot of sense. Clearly they require more help than simply giving them money which in many cases makes them worse.

[TeaFan]

That’s a good point, but it does highlight a need for change, having thousands of vulnerable people that are incapable of managing the money they are given doesn’t make a lot of sense. Clearly they require more help than simply giving them money which in many cases makes them worse.

 

Lots of people in this situation do require a lot more help, but the help available is getting cut back all the time. The Council budget for funding tenancy support has been cut by about 25% in Sheffield over the last 3 years. Mental health services have been cut. Learning disability services have been cut. This means more arrears, worse budget management, more social problems. This is the disaster for people at the bottom of the pile, victims of politicians who either throw money away (Labour) or transfer money from the worst-off to the best-off (Tories).

 

Compounded by the change in the labour market over the last 30 - 40 years, whereby the basic jobs that could be done by the least able have now disappeared, and now even the lowliest jobs have a level of complexity that some people just can't manage. Add the fact that full employment in the UK is long gone, and it all adds up to a real mess that is not going to go away and will probably only get worse.

[MrSmith]

Lots of people in this situation do require a lot more help, but the help available is getting cut back all the time. The Council budget for funding tenancy support has been cut by about 25% in Sheffield over the last 3 years. Mental health services have been cut. Learning disability services have been cut. This means more arrears, worse budget management, more social problems. This is the disaster for people at the bottom of the pile, victims of politicians who either throw money away (Labour) or transfer money from the worst-off to the best-off (Tories).

 

Compounded by the change in the labour market over the last 30 - 40 years, whereby the basic jobs that could be done by the least able have now disappeared, and now even the lowliest jobs have a level of complexity that some people just can't manage. Add the fact that full employment in the UK is long gone, and it all adds up to a real mess that is not going to go away and will probably only get worse.

 

In a time of limited resources we just need to find a more affordable way of providing what they need.

[TeaFan]

In a time of limited resources we just need to find a more affordable way of providing what they need.

 

I'm not saying there are not ways to provide support for less, but work with people who have needs will always involve a fairly high percentage of 1:1 time with another human being and this has a base cost that can't be wished away. The essential problem is income distribution. In societies where income is distributed more equally they have fewer of these kinds of problems. The UK is a very unequal society and therefore we will continue to have these problems.

 

It probably doesn't help that the labour movement, which for all its faults was nevertheless the largest non-statutory welfare organisation in the country for decades, is now largely history. I think this has pushed a lot of responsibility on to the state.