TJC1 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Nope, still law. Specifically defined by the Communications Act 2003. The Act is law. I don't see how this can be much simpler. The whole murder/harm/dishonesty thing that you call "Common Law" is not the only set of laws you have to live by in our society. Consent doesn't enter in to it. Unless presumably they don't consent to your removal of their right to access. What happens then? FMotL stalemate? ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 00:42 ---------- I don't really resent the licence fee at all. We've just given up our Sky subscription because we watch everything on iPlayer, or Netflix or whatever and had little use for the full (ha!) Sky service. I think that the quality and breadth of programming that you get is incredible. The discussion about letting TVL in to your home (no, you probably don't have to unless they are with a police officer with a warrant, in which case you have no choice) is a bit of a moot point in my view. If you don't fulfill the requirements for a licence then let them satisfy themselves of that. If you do and, as some posters advocate, just prevent them from gathering evidence then you're still evading the licence fee. Which means that the programmes that I watch are slightly less well-funded even though we both watch them - I'm paying for them and you're not. Why is that right? No. If they don't content they are tresspassing on your property - they break the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 No. If they don't content they are tresspassing on your property - they break the law. Is trespass a criminal offence? If not then what law are they breaking..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 It is a law, law is formed by acts of parliament. And if they do turn up with a warrant then you have no choice but to let them in. Evidence BTW could include them hearing the TV on when you first answer the door to them. You don't need a notice on your door to require someone to leave your property BTW, you just need to tell them to leave. No, if you want to stay on side of law you need an 'implied rights of access' notice. That means by LAW you remove the right for them to be there. That means they are commititing an offense if they do not go from property when asked. Hearing noises? That's not evidence.. TV licensing are resorting to lying to the police, claiming things like 'breach of peace' because there is no other way round it. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 10:30 ---------- Is trespass a criminal offence? If not then what law are they breaking..? I don't know what the legal term is... but if I remove your implied rights of access, all you can do is knock on my door - as soon as I ask you to leave you must do so, otherwise it's an offence. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 10:33 ---------- But they won't, cos they can't get a judge to issue a warrant without proper evidence. Unlikely- it could be the radio, or a DVD. Also unlikely that a judge is going to issue a warrent on the basis of what a TV licensing employee claims. But, even if it were possible, if those wishing not to pay the license fee simply get into the habit of turning down the TV when answering the door, then it becomes totally irrelevant, doesn't it? Spot on. Could be radio, DVD, anything. Hearing TV-like noises does not constitute evidence. Same with seeing TV-light in a window - not evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I don't know what the legal term is... but if I remove your implied rights of access, all you can do is knock on my door - as soon as I ask you to leave you must do so, otherwise it's an offence Which law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Which law? Removal Of Implied Right Of Access under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) Ministry of Justice (MoJ). According to this only persons allowed to access property are the postman, or a lost person asking for directions. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 10:46 ---------- No exemptions for tv licensing goons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 As an external examiner I know that Edexcel,AQA and OCR all include this on their respective syllabuses.Do you still believe BBC is not a business? Are you talking about GCSE level syllabi now? I still believe that the BBC doesn't have a requirement to make a profit, which was what onewheeldave kept insisting it did since it was a business. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 11:33 ---------- But they won't, cos they can't get a judge to issue a warrant without proper evidence. Probably true, and not disputed by anyone on this thread. Unlikely- it could be the radio, or a DVD. Also unlikely that a judge is going to issue a warrent on the basis of what a TV licensing employee claims. It could, but maybe they could hear that it was Eastenders, and maybe they could hear that it was from the broadcast going out at the time. But, even if it were possible, if those wishing not to pay the license fee simply get into the habit of turning down the TV when answering the door, then it becomes totally irrelevant, doesn't it? Yeah, if you want to go to huge lengths to break the law and then avoid being caught, then yes, the law becomes irrelevant. You realise that if you rob and bank, and managed to launder the money so that you can't be caught, that the law against theft becomes irrelevant, that's the same argument you're using. If you can get away with it then the law doesn't matter. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 11:36 ---------- Is trespass a criminal offence? If not then what law are they breaking..? Breaking the law doesn't have to be a criminal offence. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 11:37 ---------- No, if you want to stay on side of law you need an 'implied rights of access' notice. That means by LAW you remove the right for them to be there. That means they are commititing an offense if they do not go from property when asked. Hearing noises? That's not evidence.. TV licensing are resorting to lying to the police, claiming things like 'breach of peace' because there is no other way round it. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 10:30 ---------- I don't know what the legal term is... but if I remove your implied rights of access, all you can do is knock on my door - as soon as I ask you to leave you must do so, otherwise it's an offence. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 10:33 ---------- Spot on. Could be radio, DVD, anything. Hearing TV-like noises does not constitute evidence. Same with seeing TV-light in a window - not evidence. You can require someone to get off your property at any time, by asking, without any notice. If they refuse it's trespass. If a trespasser refuses to leave you can use reasonable force to remove them. Evidence is whatever the judge being asked to issue the warrant believes. If they are told that eastenders could be heard in the background, or that a lit TV screen was seen through a window and they believe it, then that's evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 ... this is an act - it's not LAW. Which law? Removal Of Implied Right Of Access under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) Ministry of Justice (MoJ). You appear to be somewhat confused. Have you been taking the correct meds? jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnvqsos Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Dear Cyclone Q1.both GCE and GCSE Q2.Why will you not concede that the BBC is a business,which is not profit oriented? Are you a fan of the Eagles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Removal Of Implied Right Of Access under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA) Ministry of Justice (MoJ). According to this only persons allowed to access property are the postman, or a lost person asking for directions. ---------- Post added 21-03-2013 at 10:46 ---------- No exemptions for tv licensing goons! Previously you've said that Acts aren't Laws...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I didn't say that. I said the payback would be a few years (ie multiples of £170m) and never suggested developing a new platform, just buy an existing product (the Sky one seems to work fine). I can't have Sky in my apartment. Nor can many others who live in listed buildings or have no line of sight, like my folks who live on the outskirts of a big wood. Not to mention those who don't want an ugly dish on their house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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