Phanerothyme Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I'll say only one thing, if those worthless little eurocrats succeed in banning ecigs, which are helping countless people quit a much more dangerous habit then I will make an exception to my usual law abiding rule and be vaping all over. The EU are scum with no concern for anyone but themselves and their empire building, time to take a stand against this anti-democratic set of freeloading rats. Lung cancer still accounts for the greatest number of cancer deaths among men in EU member states, except in Sweden. What's different about Sweden? It's the only place in the EU were snus (steam cured oral tobacco product) is legal to sell. Everywhere else in the EU it is illegal, owing to 80s Tory Knee Jerk Legislation™ It's things like this that make me agree strongly with you, above - in spite of my generally positive outlook on the european project " anti-democratic set of freeloading rats" sums it up reasonably well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptowngirl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Lung cancer still accounts for the greatest number of cancer deaths among men in EU member states, except in Sweden. What's different about Sweden? It's the only place in the EU were snus (steam cured oral tobacco product) is legal to sell. Everywhere else in the EU it is illegal, owing to 80s Tory Knee Jerk Legislation™ It's things like this that make me agree strongly with you, above - in spite of my generally positive outlook on the european project " anti-democratic set of freeloading rats" sums it up reasonably well. Well you've got to laugh because the Tories are the party that is offering a referendum on EU membership. :hihi::hihi::hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Lung cancer still accounts for the greatest number of cancer deaths among men in EU member states, except in Sweden. What's different about Sweden? It's the only place in the EU were snus (steam cured oral tobacco product) is legal to sell. Everywhere else in the EU it is illegal, owing to 80s Tory Knee Jerk Legislation™ It's things like this that make me agree strongly with you, above - in spite of my generally positive outlook on the european project " anti-democratic set of freeloading rats" sums it up reasonably well. Presumably though I could buy it from sweden, with free trade allowed etc... Interesting idea. Does it not increase the change of oral cancer though or is the steam treatment to stop that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Lung cancer still accounts for the greatest number of cancer deaths among men in EU member states, except in Sweden. What's different about Sweden? It's the only place in the EU were snus (steam cured oral tobacco product) is legal to sell. Everywhere else in the EU it is illegal, owing to 80s Tory Knee Jerk Legislation™ It's things like this that make me agree strongly with you, above - in spite of my generally positive outlook on the european project " anti-democratic set of freeloading rats" sums it up reasonably well. I don't want to upset your logic but Sweden has a higher rate of death from cancer than the UK. So if as you claim lung cancer deaths are lower the rest must be dying from other cancers probably caused by snus. Which presumably is why it is banned everywhere else. ---------- Post added 25-03-2013 at 22:29 ---------- Presumably though I could buy it from sweden, with free trade allowed etc... Interesting idea. Does it not increase the chance of oral cancer though or is the steam treatment to stop that? Very likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I don't want to upset your logic but Sweden has a higher rate of death from cancer than the UK. So if as you claim lung cancer deaths are lower the rest must be dying from other cancers probably caused by snus. or a diet of pickled herring. Or one of many other dietary/lifestyle/environmental conditions which are hard to tease out, but if true it's worth investigating. But your reasoning is unsound, and your figures are, as far as I can see, incorrect. Deaths per 100,000, eurostat figures for 2010 (a snapshot) reveal: That the UK lung cancer rate of 39.6, is higher than the Swedish 25.1 That the UK overall standardised cancer rate is 170 and in Sweden it is 144. So I'm not sure where you're getting your figures from. Which presumably is why it is banned everywhere else Not sure about outside the EU, but it's banned in the EU because of something that happened in this country back in the 80s involving non-swedish non-snus oral tobacco. Presumably though I could buy it from sweden, with free trade allowed etc... Interesting idea. I get parcels from Sweden periodically. When I'm over there I buy a few rolls of the stuff. Does it not increase the change of oral cancer though or is the steam treatment to stop that? Snus doesn't contain significant levels of tobacco specific nitrous amines (TSNAs), which seem to be the principle carcinogens in cigarette smoke both in terms of concentration and potency. American 'dip' is fire cured and is associated with mouth and throat cancer, and contains plenty of TSNAs, but snus is unique in oral tobacco products because it is cured at lower temperatures, with steam, preventing pyrolysis and the formation of TSNAs Likewise, the fact it is pasteurised inhibits any fermentation of the tobacco, which is another significant source of TSNAs in tobacco products. Snus does significantly increase your risk of pancreatic cancer, but not as much as smoking tobacco. As you might expect in a country where snus is consumed instead of cigarettes, pancreatic cancer rates in europe are only lower in two other countries - Portugal and Cyprus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Am using Nicorette inhilators to stop my craving for nicotine similar to E Cigs, unlike E Cigs can be used in all inside and outside environments - Inhilators are great for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 or a diet of pickled herring. Or one of many other dietary/lifestyle/environmental conditions which are hard to tease out, but if true it's worth investigating. But your reasoning is unsound, and your figures are, as far as I can see, incorrect. Deaths per 100,000, eurostat figures for 2010 (a snapshot) reveal: That the UK lung cancer rate of 39.6, is higher than the Swedish 25.1 That the UK overall standardised cancer rate is 170 and in Sweden it is 144. So I'm not sure where you're getting your figures from. Not sure about outside the EU, but it's banned in the EU because of something that happened in this country back in the 80s involving non-swedish non-snus oral tobacco. I get parcels from Sweden periodically. When I'm over there I buy a few rolls of the stuff. Snus doesn't contain significant levels of tobacco specific nitrous amines (TSNAs), which seem to be the principle carcinogens in cigarette smoke both in terms of concentration and potency. American 'dip' is fire cured and is associated with mouth and throat cancer, and contains plenty of TSNAs, but snus is unique in oral tobacco products because it is cured at lower temperatures, with steam, preventing pyrolysis and the formation of TSNAs Likewise, the fact it is pasteurised inhibits any fermentation of the tobacco, which is another significant source of TSNAs in tobacco products. Snus does significantly increase your risk of pancreatic cancer, but not as much as smoking tobacco. As you might expect in a country where snus is consumed instead of cigarettes, pancreatic cancer rates in europe are only lower in two other countries - Portugal and Cyprus. You can make up whatever figures you like. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer Sweden: 268.2 deaths per 100,000 people United Kingdom: 253.5 deaths per 100,000 people ---------- Post added 25-03-2013 at 23:49 ---------- Am using Nicorette inhilators to stop my craving for nicotine similar to E Cigs, unlike E Cigs can be used in all inside and outside environments - Inhilators are great for me Which is probably why the airlines don't have a problem with you using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 You can make up whatever figures you like. And in the same way, you're welcome to throw around unfounded accusations. The difference is, of course, I'm not making the figures up. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer Sweden: 268.2 deaths per 100,000 people United Kingdom: 253.5 deaths per 100,000 people The page you linked to literally draws a blank when you try to follow the link to the OECD figures. Why the OECD is regarded as a leading source of cancer stats will no doubt become clear to us … I told you the source of my data, eurostat, but more recent (2012) figures from IARC show Sweden right at the bottom of the table for lung cancer incidence and mortality. For the sake of comparison, 2012 figures indicate lung cancer incidence in the UK amongst males is 53.3 per 100,000, in Sweden it is 28.8 - The mathematically gifted will notice that the incidence of male lung cancer is nearly twice as high in the UK. The gap in mortality is slightly less, but of the same order of magnitude. These figures are derived from the 2012 datasets from the International Agency for Research on Cancer. If you want to dispute them for some reason, I'd take it up with IARC, instead of blindly accusing me of making stuff up. So you see, it's really your logic at fault here, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtrout Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Originally Posted by Phanerothyme You've not exhibited any yet, but I'm prepared to have the scales lifted from my eyes That's a battery issue though, isn't it? Would you consider restrictions on the sale and use of laptops because the batteries sometimes explode? Or any other device powered by high drain rechargeable lithium batteries. Also, you don't put the battery in your mouth when you use an ecig. Because the restrictions on smoking tobacco in public were put in place to prevent harm to non-smokers. e-cigarettes are tiny fog machines, the upscale versions of which are everywhere, regulated by the eu, and ratified as low to no risk. With the exception of nicotine they're exactly the same. The only other difference is that the British association of electronic cigarette retailers stipulate that the propylene glycol and glyverine used must be pharmaceutical grade in purity. And the few micrograms of nicotine in the inhaled fog are not present in the exhaled fog in detectable amounts. Which medics have this opinion? I know the BMA wanted to ban pointy kitchen knives some years ago, if that counts as medical opinion. Any events in particular, or just generically "events". Just don't ever go to any theatrical productions, nightclubs or mobile discos if you value your health, the fog might kill you. Uptowngirl's reply ... You seem to have a very low ability at constructive debate. I do hope that you have something else in your life and didn't spend to long constructing this tripe. I really do wish there was a 'like' button on SF Phanerothyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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