mossdog Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 An interesting read!!! I'll bet a few Cypriot bank account holders are paying much closer attention to gold now. Since the announcement that Cyprus was looking to confiscate up to 10% of bank deposits, gold has risen by up to $24/ounce on safe haven demand. After all, gold is real wealth, and it's the only asset that's not simultaneously someone else's liability. Central bankers, even in the West, know this too. As former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan once said: "Gold is the canary in the coal mine. It signals problems with respect to currency markets. Central banks should pay attention to it." I just hope the irony of that message -- and its messenger -- aren't lost on you. As for Cyprus, this ongoing crisis has it all. Along with gold, there's debt, energy, intrigue and a long storied history... Private Briefing The Cyprus Bailout Pits East vs. West Situated just south of Turkey, west of Syria, and north of Israel, the Mediterranean island of Cyprus straddles the great divide between east and west. Thanks to its strategic location in the Middle East, Cyprus has been occupied through the ages by numerous major powers, including the Egyptians, Assyrians, Romans, Ottomans, and even the British. In the 1970 s, Cyprus became disputed territory between the Turks and the Greeks. That's still true today. Since joining the EU as a member state in 2004, the island nation has prospered as its economy became more diversified, and banking, tourism, and shipping flourished. But thanks to the Greek sovereign debt crisis, a massive influx of Russians and their money, and some recently discovered natural resources, this territory is back to being disputed. It's a battle of east and west again. This time: It's Europe and Russia. Here's what I mean... The Eurozone's debt crisis of 2012 has devastated Cyprus' banking system to the point where it now needs a bailout to the tune of 10 billion euros. Cypriot banks are teetering on the edge, thanks to overexposure to the ongoing financial crisis in Greece. The European Central Bank (ECB) has threatened to cut emergency lending assistance, and Nicosia is not willing to liquidate the two large Cypriot banks in trouble since that could drag down the entire financial industry. For Cyprus, finance is important. According to Eurogroup president Jeroen Dijsselbloem, Cyprus' banking sector is more than five times its GDP. Further, Eurogroup predicted that the island's public debt would reach 100% of GDP by 2020. A Game of Russian Roulette Cyprus' banks have managed to swell, thanks to an influx of money from Russian oligarchs and banks. Some estimates for the amount of Russian money in Cyprus run as high as $30 billion. According to Moody's Investors Services, adding in loans to Cyprus-registered corporations doubles Russia's exposure to about $60 billion. So a proposed 10% tax on Cypriot bank accounts would effectively be a tax on Russian money. But that plan, hatched by the Europeans to raise $7.5 billion, was rejected by Cyprus' Parliament, throwing the bailout into doubt. For now, Europe has pledged unlimited liquidity to help keep banks afloat, so long as a deal is reached in short order. Keep in mind, though, that a bailout of Cypriot banks is essentially a bailout of Russian depositors in those banks, not something the Europeans are particularly fond of. It is probably why they pushed so hard for the "one time" tax on those accounts, rather than a "regular" bailout of extended loans and lower interest payments like other deadbeat euro members have been getting. Besides contributing deposits, businesses, and thousands of expats, Russia also has a 2.5 billion e uro loan to Cyprus. So clearly, Russia has plenty of reasons to care about the future of Cyprus. But there's one more strategic reason: Energy. The Energy Conspiracy Given that Europe demanded the tax, and that Russia supplies that continent with 36% of its natural gas, one can already sense the tactical planning the Russians must be doing right now. Follow closely though, because this web gets even more complex and interconnected. You see, Cyprus holds its own promise of resource riches, one the Russians have noticed. In late 2011, Noble Energy (NYSE: NBL) announced a massive find of natural gas in offshore Cyprus, expanding its already- large inventory in neighboring Israel. Since then Cyprus has issued exploration licenses to Noble, Total, Eni, and Korea Gas. Cyprus' finance minister Sarris went to Moscow looking for an additional 5 billion euro loan, which is about the same amount the Europeans were looking to raise through the "one time" bank tax. In return, the island nation offered Russia the opportunity to take part in tenders for offshore exploration rights. Those talks ended on Thursday with the Russian finance minister indicating its investors weren't interested in Cyprus' gas reserves. I just don't buy it. The lure of up to 60 trillion cubic feet of natural gas may prove too much for Russia to snub. One idea that had been floated was for Gazprombank, the giant Russian gas company's banking division, to buy ailing Laiki Bank, the second-largest in Cyprus, and bail it out with a 4 billion e uro recapitalization. Gazprom is the world's largest producer of natural gas, so you can be sure they want to stay number one. For now, Russia has declined to offer any additional help to stave off a potential banking crisis in Cyprus. My view is they don't want to alienate Europe, because if the Europeans step away from Cyprus, an immediate crisis is more likely. And that would probably mean capital controls, as well as a reversion to the Cypriot pound as legal tender. A newly- set exchange rate would force account holders to take an immediate haircut. If the exchange rate were allowed to be set by the market, the Cypriot pound would be worth a fraction of the euro, and living standards in Cyprus would plummet. Russian account holders would be left holding a near-empty bag. The Golden Link Now Europe has given Cyprus an ultimatum: T hey must secure an agreement with the European Union and International Monetary Fund in order to keep receiving the low-interest loans that are floating their banks. The Europeans have decided that Cypriot bank accounts, whether held by Cypriots, Russians, or anyone else for that matter, ought to be fair game. They may be calling it a tax or a "one off" levy, but those are just other names for outright theft. Faith in the fiat money system has already been in a steep decline since 2007. Trust is breaking down. Europe wants to avoid a run on banks, but their desperate actions are encouraging exactly that. It makes one wonder what people in other troubled economies, like Italy or Spain, must be thinking about the risks to their deposits. Bank accounts - private property - can now easily be confiscated by ordering a bank holiday and skimming right off the top. It's a lesson in the dangers of fiat money. Meanwhile, Russia's been quietly adding to its official stash of gold reserves. The central bank recently emerged as the world's top gold buyer, adding 570 metric tons in the last decade. Today, Russia's central bank holds 936.7 metric tons of gold, equal to 9.6% of national forex reserves. There's little doubt that Russian tycoons have been among the recent wave of gold buyers. Given Russia's central bank buying spree, it's entirely likely they've seen the snowballing risks underlying the Cyprus banking system. And the gold buying by Russian oligarchs and central bankers alike is expected to be stepped up. As Evgeny Fedorov, a lawmaker with Putin's United Russia Party, told Bloomberg last month, "The more gold a country has, the more sovereignty it will have if there's a cataclysm with the dollar, the euro, the pound, or any other reserve currency ." It sounds to me like gold is in fact the ultimate reserve currency. It's just ironic that the center of the former communist empire is the country that "gets it ." As Cyprus struggles, it's just another example of why now is the time to buy gold. Related Articles and News: Money Morning: By The 2016 Election Gold Could Be $3700 an Ounce Money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Even the Germans seem to be worried according to DER SPIEGEL. "Nearly half of all Germans fear for their savings -- and with good reason. At times like these, the only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain." http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/commentary-on-impact-of-euro-crisis-on-european-savers-a-890789.html Don't panic and there is no need to cause a run on the bank until I have taken all my money out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDROCK Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 An interesting read!!! I'll bet a few Cypriot bank account holders are paying much closer attention to gold now. Since the announcement that Cyprus was looking to confiscate up to 10% of bank deposits, gold has risen by up to $24/ounce on safe haven demand. After all, gold is real wealth, and it's the only asset that's not simultaneously someone else's liability. Central bankers, even in the West, know this too. As former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan once said: "Gold is the canary in the coal mine. It signals problems with respect to currency markets. Central banks should pay attention to it." I just hope the irony of that message -- and its messenger -- aren't lost on you. As for Cyprus, this ongoing crisis has it all. Along with gold, there's debt, energy, intrigue and a long storied history... Private Briefing The Cyprus Bailout Pits East vs. West Situated just south of Turkey, west of Syria, and north of Israel, the Mediterranean island of Cyprus straddles the great divide between east and west. Thanks to its strategic location in the Middle East, Cyprus has been occupied through the ages by numerous major powers, including the Egyptians, Assyrians, Romans, Ottomans, and even the British. In the 1970 s, Cyprus became disputed territory between the Turks and the Greeks. That's still true today. Since joining the EU as a member state in 2004, the island nation has prospered as its economy became more diversified, and banking, tourism, and shipping flourished. But thanks to the Greek sovereign debt crisis, a massive influx of Russians and their money, and some recently discovered natural resources, this territory is back to being disputed. It's a battle of east and west again. This time: It's Europe and Russia. Here's what I mean... The Eurozone's debt crisis of 2012 has devastated Cyprus' banking system to the point where it now needs a bailout to the tune of 10 billion euros. Cypriot banks are teetering on the edge, thanks to overexposure to the ongoing financial crisis in Greece. The European Central Bank (ECB) has threatened to cut emergency lending assistance, and Nicosia is not willing to liquidate the two large Cypriot banks in trouble since that could drag down the entire financial industry. For Cyprus, finance is important. According to Eurogroup president Jeroen Dijsselbloem, Cyprus' banking sector is more than five times its GDP. Further, Eurogroup predicted that the island's public debt would reach 100% of GDP by 2020. A Game of Russian Roulette Cyprus' banks have managed to swell, thanks to an influx of money from Russian oligarchs and banks. Some estimates for the amount of Russian money in Cyprus run as high as $30 billion. According to Moody's Investors Services, adding in loans to Cyprus-registered corporations doubles Russia's exposure to about $60 billion. So a proposed 10% tax on Cypriot bank accounts would effectively be a tax on Russian money. But that plan, hatched by the Europeans to raise $7.5 billion, was rejected by Cyprus' Parliament, throwing the bailout into doubt. For now, Europe has pledged unlimited liquidity to help keep banks afloat, so long as a deal is reached in short order. Keep in mind, though, that a bailout of Cypriot banks is essentially a bailout of Russian depositors in those banks, not something the Europeans are particularly fond of. It is probably why they pushed so hard for the "one time" tax on those accounts, rather than a "regular" bailout of extended loans and lower interest payments like other deadbeat euro members have been getting. Besides contributing deposits, businesses, and thousands of expats, Russia also has a 2.5 billion e uro loan to Cyprus. So clearly, Russia has plenty of reasons to care about the future of Cyprus. But there's one more strategic reason: Energy. The Energy Conspiracy Given that Europe demanded the tax, and that Russia supplies that continent with 36% of its natural gas, one can already sense the tactical planning the Russians must be doing right now. Follow closely though, because this web gets even more complex and interconnected. You see, Cyprus holds its own promise of resource riches, one the Russians have noticed. In late 2011, Noble Energy (NYSE: NBL) announced a massive find of natural gas in offshore Cyprus, expanding its already- large inventory in neighboring Israel. Since then Cyprus has issued exploration licenses to Noble, Total, Eni, and Korea Gas. Cyprus' finance minister Sarris went to Moscow looking for an additional 5 billion euro loan, which is about the same amount the Europeans were looking to raise through the "one time" bank tax. In return, the island nation offered Russia the opportunity to take part in tenders for offshore exploration rights. Those talks ended on Thursday with the Russian finance minister indicating its investors weren't interested in Cyprus' gas reserves. I just don't buy it. The lure of up to 60 trillion cubic feet of natural gas may prove too much for Russia to snub. One idea that had been floated was for Gazprombank, the giant Russian gas company's banking division, to buy ailing Laiki Bank, the second-largest in Cyprus, and bail it out with a 4 billion e uro recapitalization. Gazprom is the world's largest producer of natural gas, so you can be sure they want to stay number one. For now, Russia has declined to offer any additional help to stave off a potential banking crisis in Cyprus. My view is they don't want to alienate Europe, because if the Europeans step away from Cyprus, an immediate crisis is more likely. And that would probably mean capital controls, as well as a reversion to the Cypriot pound as legal tender. A newly- set exchange rate would force account holders to take an immediate haircut. If the exchange rate were allowed to be set by the market, the Cypriot pound would be worth a fraction of the euro, and living standards in Cyprus would plummet. Russian account holders would be left holding a near-empty bag. The Golden Link Now Europe has given Cyprus an ultimatum: T hey must secure an agreement with the European Union and International Monetary Fund in order to keep receiving the low-interest loans that are floating their banks. The Europeans have decided that Cypriot bank accounts, whether held by Cypriots, Russians, or anyone else for that matter, ought to be fair game. They may be calling it a tax or a "one off" levy, but those are just other names for outright theft. Faith in the fiat money system has already been in a steep decline since 2007. Trust is breaking down. Europe wants to avoid a run on banks, but their desperate actions are encouraging exactly that. It makes one wonder what people in other troubled economies, like Italy or Spain, must be thinking about the risks to their deposits. Bank accounts - private property - can now easily be confiscated by ordering a bank holiday and skimming right off the top. It's a lesson in the dangers of fiat money. Meanwhile, Russia's been quietly adding to its official stash of gold reserves. The central bank recently emerged as the world's top gold buyer, adding 570 metric tons in the last decade. Today, Russia's central bank holds 936.7 metric tons of gold, equal to 9.6% of national forex reserves. There's little doubt that Russian tycoons have been among the recent wave of gold buyers. Given Russia's central bank buying spree, it's entirely likely they've seen the snowballing risks underlying the Cyprus banking system. And the gold buying by Russian oligarchs and central bankers alike is expected to be stepped up. As Evgeny Fedorov, a lawmaker with Putin's United Russia Party, told Bloomberg last month, "The more gold a country has, the more sovereignty it will have if there's a cataclysm with the dollar, the euro, the pound, or any other reserve currency ." It sounds to me like gold is in fact the ultimate reserve currency. It's just ironic that the center of the former communist empire is the country that "gets it ." As Cyprus struggles, it's just another example of why now is the time to buy gold. Related Articles and News: Money Morning: By The 2016 Election Gold Could Be $3700 an Ounce Money We were much better centuries ago when all we had were a few pieces of gold and silver and a heavy dose of good will to get by. With the invention of debt it makes everyone a slave to someone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Are you guys trying to tell us that Gordon Brown was not acting in the best interests of the country when he offloaded all that gold? In particular, you had to admire the way he sold it in two separate tranches, so that the price of the second load was less than the first as the price had gone down because of the presence on the market of the first amount. It's almost as though we're being governed by people who don't know what their doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEDROCK Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Are you guys trying to tell us that Gordon Brown was not acting in the best interests of the country when he offloaded all that gold? In particular, you had to admire the way he sold it in two separate tranches, so that the price of the second load was less than the first as the price had gone down because of the presence on the market of the first amount. It's almost as though we're being governed by people who don't know what their doing. Have you just figured that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 No, I thought it at the time, but Gordon assured us all that he was the saviour of the world economy & so I assumed that I must have been mistaken, I mean who ever heard of a politician not being totally truthful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dromedary Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Question I was told by more than one person that if your only income is "Income support - Benefits etc" the bank's can't make charges on that account. Would that be correct? They can charge what they like as its all subject to change as stated in the small print. Best way to avoid any charges is not to have a bank account in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdog Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 They can charge what they like as its all subject to change as stated in the small print. Best way to avoid any charges is not to have a bank account in the first place. Which is why people are buying gold!! Bloomberg reported recently that Russia is now the world's biggest gold buyer, its central bank having added 570 tonnes (18.3 million troy ounces) over the past decade. At $1,650/ounce, that's $30.1 billion worth of gold. Russia isn't alone, of course. Central banks as a group have been net buyers for at least two years now. But the 2012 data trickling out shows that the amount of tonnage being added is breaking records. The following table lists the countries that have added to their gold reserves this year, while the second one tallies those that have been selling. You'll see how recently each country has reported, along with its percentage increase. Changes in Central Bank Gold Reserves in 2012 (Million Troy Ounces) Year-End 2011 YTD 2012 Last Reported Net Change Percent Change Countries Increasing Reserves Turkey 6.28 11.56 Dec 5.283 84.1% Russia 28.39 30.79 Dec 2.405 8.5% Bank for International Settlements 15.6 16.71 Dec 1.114 7.1% Brazil 1.08 2.16 Dec 1.08 100.0% Philippines 5.12 6.2 Nov 1.079 21.1% Kazakhstan 2.64 3.71 Dec 1.07 40.5% South Korea 1.75 2.71 Nov 0.965 54.9% Iraq 0.19 0.96 Nov 0.773 405.3% México 3.41 4 Dec 0.596 17.3% Paraguay 0.021 0.263 Sept 0.242 1152.4% Ukraine 0.9 1.14 Dec 0.239 26.7% Belarus 1.21 1.37 Dec 0.164 13.2% Tajikistan 0.15 0.2 Dec 0.05 33.3% Brunei 0.06 0.09 Oct 0.031 50.0% Mozambique 0.08 0.11 Oct 0.025 37.5% Serbia 0.46 0.48 Nov 0.022 4.3% Jordan 0.41 0.43 May 0.02 4.9% Kyrgyz Republic 0.08 0.1 Dec 0.014 25.0% Greece 3.59 3.6 Dec 0.008 0.3% Mongolia 0.11 0.12 Nov 0.004 9.1% Suriname 0.071 0.074 Dec 0.003 4.2% South Africa 4.02 4.02 Nov 0.003 0.0% Moldova 0 0.002 Dec 0.002 Bulgaria 1.28 1.28 Dec 0.001 0.0% Pakistan 2.071 2.072 Dec 0.001 0.0% Subtotal Gross Increases 15.2 Changes in Central Bank Gold Reserves in 2012 (Million Troy Ounces) Year-End 2011 YTD 2012 Last Reported Net Change Percent Change Countries Decreasing Reserves Sri Lanka 0.32 0.12 Sept -0.204 -62.5% Germany 109.19 109.04 Dec -0.159 -0.1% Czech Republic 0.4 0.37 Dec -0.028 -7.5% Macedonia 0.22 0.22 Dec -0.001 0.0% France 78.3 78.3 Dec -0.001 0.0% Malta 0.01 0.01 Dec -0.001 0.0% Subtotal Gross Decreases -0.39 Total Net Change 14.8 Sources: IMF, CPM Group. Data as of 1-31-13. Based on current data, the net increase in central bank gold buying for 2012 was 14.8 million troy ounces – and that's before the final 2012 figures are in for all countries. This is a dramatic increase, one bigger than most investors probably realize. To put it in perspective, on a net basis, central banks added more to their reserves last year than since 1964. The net increase – so far – is 17% greater than what was added in 2011, which was itself a year of record buying. Here's a picture of total central bank reserves since the financial crisis hit. Whatever gold's price movements, positive or negative, central bank officials have continued adding a lot of ounces to their reserves. But this understates the case, because most of the data exclude China, as well as a few other small countries. China last officially reported gold reserves in 2009, so the totals in the chart since then exclude whatever its purchases might have been. Here's where it gets interesting: Bloomberg claimed that Russia has been a bigger buyer of gold over the past decade than China – by a full 25%. Based on data about gold imports through Hong Kong and the fact that, for the most part, Chinese production doesn't leave the country, it seemed to me that this could not be right. The Chinese central bank holds an official 1,054 tonnes of gold in its reserves. Bloomberg states, based on IMF data, that China has added somewhere around 425 tonnes over the past decade. I can't say exactly what the correct number is, but the Bloomberg number almost has to be wrong. Here's why: Gold imports through Hong Kong in December alone hit a record high of 109.8 tonnes. Imports for 2012 also hit a record high of 572.5 tonnes. If you add 2012 mine production – remember that China is now the world's largest gold producer – roughly 970 tonnes of gold was delivered to various entities within the country last year. Cumulative imports since 2001 have reached 1,352 tonnes. Since 2001, imports plus production total a whopping 4,793 tonnes. So Bloomberg is essentially saying that roughly 10% of the total gold available inside the country during that period was added to China's reserves. While it's true that Chinese citizens are buying a lot of gold (though perhaps more silver), it's highly doubtful that private parties bought 90% of all the gold brought to the Chinese market during this period. I think – but can't prove – that China's central bank is buying more gold and at a faster pace than its Russian counterpart. Jim Rickards, a highly respected author and hedge fund manager, said last month that China has probably already accumulated between 2,000 and 3,000 tonnes of additional gold reserves. If he's right, that would be roughly double or triple the 1,054 tonnes it reported in 2009 – not the 40% increase Bloomberg's numbers suggest. At the very least, we can say that the Bloomberg report left consideration of China's imports and production out of its report naming Russia the top gold buyer of 2012. Okay…but so what? Well, Jim thinks the next big catalyst for gold will be an announcement from China about its reserve position. Here's what he told me in late December: "The catalyst for a spike into the $2,500 to $3,000 price range for gold will be an announcement by China, probably in late 2013 or 2014, that they have acquired 4,000 tonnes or more in their official reserve position. This will put China on an equal footing with the US in terms of a gold-to-GDP ratio, and validate gold as the real foundation of the international monetary system. Once that position is validated, gold will move to the $7,000 range in 2015 and beyond." Even if Jim's estimate is high or China doesn't make an announcement until later, it's clear that central banks around the world are buying gold in record quantities. It almost makes you wonder… do they know something we don't? The Russians gave us some hints. Evgeny Fedorov, a lawmaker for Putin's United Russia Party, said last week, "The more gold a country has, the more sovereignty it will have if there's a cataclysm with the dollar, the euro, the pound, or any other reserve currency." President Vladimir Putin told his central bank not to "shy away" from the metal, adding "After all, they're called gold and currency reserves for a reason." The Chinese have been quiet on this topic recently, after being very vocal a few years ago. Here's a recent quote. "The current international currency system is the product of the past," said Hu Jintao, General Secretary of the Communist Party of China. Others have provided clues as well. "We're in the midst of an international currency war," said Guido Mantega, finance minister of Brazil. "Quantitative easing also works through exchange rates… The Fed could engage in much more aggressive quantitative easing, to further lower the dollar," said Christina Romer, former chair of the Council of Economic Advisors. Economist Kyle Bass recently spoke to a senior member of the Obama administration about its planned solutions for fixing the US economy and trade deficit. When he asked, "How are we going to grow exports if we won't allow nominal wage deflation?", the answer he got was, "We're just going to kill the dollar." Yes, we're talking about the US dollar. Perhaps some investors have gotten complacent about the risks to the world's reserve currency – but not central bankers. It's not hard to see why: whether they admit it or not, central bankers must know what it means to run the printing presses the way the US has since 2008, even if price inflation is not immediately obvious. It's no surprise they want to hedge their bets, moving more reserves into something with actual value... something that can't be debased by a few computer keystrokes by an increasingly unfriendly government. The US dollar has been the world's reserve currency since WWII. That's beginning to change, and the movement into gold is just one facet of that change. The buying by central banks is exactly what one would expect to see as we approach the end of the dollar hegemony. The message from central banks is clear: they expect the dollar to move inexorably lower. It doesn't matter that it's been holding up against other currencies or that the economy might be getting better. They're buying gold in record amounts because they see a significant shift coming with the status of the dollar, and they need to protect themselves against that risk. This leads to a second message: gold is not overpriced, in spite of the 500%+ increase since 2001. Indeed, with the recent correction, central banks are likely buying more, even as you read this. Central bank gold buying will continue, of that we're certain. Even after Putin's binge, gold accounts for only 9.5% of Russia's total reserves. China's 1,054 tonnes is roughly 2% of its reserves. It's clear that both countries, along with others, have decided to accumulate as much gold as they can, as quickly as they can, before the dollar's decline becomes more pronounced... and permanent. This could explain why some central banks don't publicize their purchases. It also means that Bloomberg and other mainstream media outlets could be caught off guard when China announces higher gold reserves than expected – perhaps much higher. Clearly we should take notice. If central banks are preparing for a major change in the value of the dollar, shouldn't we? The fact remains that the US dollar cannot and will not survive the ongoing abuse heaped upon it by government planners and federal officials. That not only means the gold price will rise, but that many, if not most currencies, will lose a significant amount of purchasing power. This has direct implications for all of us. Embrace the messages central bankers are telling us – the ones they tell with their actions, not their words. Buy gold. Your financial future may very well depend upon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Yes bang on, I think we are all agreed that money = debt and debt will never be paid back, never... So, the only thing that is really worth it is gold, silver and bonds, without any of these you may as well turn up to a gun fight with a knife! Trouble is you can't eat gold, and it doesn't keep you warm and dry... When all these things, food, warmth, shelter, are no longer available at any price - what do you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Jeez.....mossdog has discovered copy and paste. Do you really think people come on SF to read through all that crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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