buck Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Why are you doing the name calling, I thought we were just having a nice discussion.but that is all Cyclone does. just laugh at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Interesting article here which summarises some of the complaints from the House of Lords on why gay marraige is a bad idea. Some of the reasons given are loopy http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/18-arguments-made-against-gay-marriage-house-lords Why don't they just say 'I don't particularly like gay people'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Interesting article here which summarises some of the complaints from the House of Lords on why gay marraige is a bad idea. Some of the reasons given are loopy http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/18-arguments-made-against-gay-marriage-house-lords That's one of the most pathetic things I've ever read. It's quite worrying that these people have a big influence in our lives. It's hard to believe the people who came up with those "arguments" are adults. Each point could be countered by a well-reasoned child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 What has a god got to do with it, I'm married and a god certainly wasn't on the invite list. Same here, maybe that's why the issue seems so obvious to us. ---------- Post added 09-06-2013 at 21:24 ---------- If that is what Snailboy thinks, then its true for him. There is more to marriage than what you want. If it's true for him, then someone else marrying in a different way (as already demonstrably happens) won't have any effect on him or in anyway redefine marriage for him. QED he should be completely sanguine about gay marriage. ---------- Post added 09-06-2013 at 21:26 ---------- but that is all Cyclone does. just laugh at him. Really. All I do is "call names". Is that all you've ever managed to read of a single post I've made? Sometimes it seems like we all live in slightly different parallel universes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 There is more to marriage than what you want. My desire is irrelevant. It's perfectly possible to be married without God. My sister did it last week. Not one word of God. Johncocker is fundamentally incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Today my wife made what I thought was going to be a lovely cake. It seemed to be made with the perfect marriage of ingredients, but when she gave me some on a plate it turned out to be just a bit of flour, egg, butter and sugar. It turns out that a marriage of these ingredients is impossible, because marriage is only possible between a heterosexual man and a heterosexual woman before johncocker's God. Oh well, I used to like cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncocker Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I think the thing is marriage as an institution has changed dramatically over the last few decades. Now many people live together or have children together without being married or having any intention of being married. Yet those are big commitments with legal implications. Marriage used to be the way of regularising and legalising those commitments. The only people using the idea of marriage in its older sense are religious people who consider sex and living together as being appropriate within marriage. That original institution is valuable; it promotes commitment and stability and the welfare of the family. The reason for having gay marriage is the look of the thing, the equality in name as well as actuality, marriage rather than civil partnership. Because as a minority,for homosexual people it is just another tool for of getting more respect in socitey, do I think they'll get it down this path ...in short no, I think it will create more animosity for them .(things do have an habit of going out fashion rather rapidly in the gay world):o But as far as changing marriage goes, well I think that already happened. as an aside / I still think the church should continue to promote marriage as a valuable institution but promoting those ideals shouldn't hang on a word, it hangs on actions. The church should promote loving, committed, stable relationships for families and really for the rest you can call it what you like:) ---------- Post added 10-06-2013 at 05:32 ---------- I don't know where you got that from What I said is that what JohnCocker wants (marriage for heterosexuals only) is less than what Chris Sleeps wants (marriage for heterosexuals and homosexuals). One is more inclusive than the other, it's simple You seem to be missing a rather large, and very obvious point. (You've also not answered my question, which didn't surprise me as it would put you in the rather awkward position of having to admit that marriage has never been a static thing, it's rules have always changed - still, an answer wouldn't go amiss) Marriage - even before the gay question, didn't have to have anything to do with God - in fact a few years ago when we were getting married there were ceremonies available (and I'm sure there still are) that actually forbade you from using religious language at all. So saying gays shouldn't marry because it forbids same sex relationships in the Bible is a non argument - because straight people don't have to get married before God - in fact marriage doesn't have to be before God. You're not even presenting a valid argument - and even if it were valid, and the Bible were your evidence, all the supporters of gay marriage would have to do is disprove the Bible as an authority - that would be easy enough anyway, but especially if you were claiming its authority from the Christian perspective. If you want to go down that road I will, but please don't start resorting to avoiding questions and calling me names and throwing insults like you usually do. So we can either look at marriage, as it exists, in which case your argument is blatantly wrong. Or we can go down the route of citing Biblical authority, ignoring all marriage/relationships outside of that which would lead us to disproving the Bible/Christian doctrine which would by default devalue all (from your perspective) marriage - including straight, religious ones. Or you could say 'You know what, I don't really have any evidence to support it - but I just don't like the idea of same sex marriage', in which case, from me at least you will get a 'fair enough - that's your opinion even though I disagree with it' and we can leave it at that. The choice is yours. you mean the pali richard " phone menu multiple choice":hihi: maybe i should start demanding answers to some of my posts/:suspect: here's one of many you chose to ignore. on the question of redefining marraige/ the point I was making is either sexuality is an issue or it is not. If it is, then there has to be an equivalent of consummation/adultery for same sex couples. If it is not, and sex has NOTHING to do with marriage, then there is no logical (which is not the same as saying that there are calls for it) reason to deny it to any pair of consenting adults (marriage to animals/inanimate objects/children is obviously crap as these things cannot give valid consent) : be they brother and brother, sister and sister etc. - btw pali I hope your keeping in mind The Fourth Step on the Eightfold Path while your on this thread:suspect: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 The point about redefining marriage has been answered by multiple people, multiple times. I'm not sure how a point can be answered, questions are the things that require answers. The legislation will presumably answer you question about consummation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Why don't they just say 'I don't particularly like gay people'? Because its not about being gay or lesbian. Its about the ideal partnership for bring up children being a man and a women. Many people in the news agree with that. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22820829 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Because its not about being gay or lesbian. Its about the ideal partnership for bring up children being a man and a women. Many people in the news agree with that. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22820829 That link has nothing to do with same sex marriage. It isn't a prerequisite to have children after getting married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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