E-cigs/E-cigarettes: MegaThread Discussion

[Phanerothyme]

So one week the WHO announces that e-cigs are dangerous and the next week researchers say using them can save lives.

 

To be fair, the WHO argued strongly that enviromental nicotine pollution was the problem, which was a specious argument at best.

 

Actual researchers came up with the data, which shows, at worst, ecigs are orders of magnitude less dangerous than cigarettes.

 

All the substances inhaled have been exhaustively tested in humans for decades. Drawing up a risk profile for e-cigs isn't that difficult.

 

What does need to happen is regulation and testing. I certainly wouldn't buy any e-liquid from non-members of ECITA, which already have a rigorous testing regime in place.

As well as the internal auditing procedures, each member’s eliquid is regularly tested by GC/MS with isotope dilution analysis at a Public Analyst's lab, to ensure that nicotine levels are as stated, and that there are no contaminants in the liquid – in bottled liquid, pre-filled cartridges and cartomisers. In order to ensure that there can be no doubt as to the authenticity of the test results, the samples are ‘blinded’ before being sent to the lab. This means that the lab does not know what is expected to be found in the eliquid, and the gas chromatography/mass spectrometry results must be relied upon to provide the results in isolation. The blinding process allows us to monitor the lab’s results, and keep the standards as high as possible. In this way, consumers can be reassured that when they buy from an ECITA member, they know the eliquid contains only what it should. All samples are specifically checked for the presence of diethylene glycol and so far none has been found.

 

The government needs to work with the trade associations, before allowing any legislation, which should merely enshrine and enforce what the associations are already doing for themselves.

[Bonzo77]

E-cigarette liquid bought on Tyneside 'potentially harmful'.

 

Which goes to show that these products should be properly regulated and tested.

 

I'd welcome testing and regulation. But I wouldn't want to see them sold in the same way that aids to stop smoking are. They should still be sold by licensed shops and packaged in the same way with flavours etc.

[staninoodle]

Ive noticed the 36 or 3.6 ml strength oils becomming harder to buy.I asked a guy in a vape shop today and he told me the government have outlawed this strength and that they had to clear ALL thier shelves of 36s within two months and that the max strength in future will be limited to the 24.

Anyone know if this is true?

[psynuk]

the shop in chapeltown (ecloud) sells 3.6 in a few flavours.

failing that just make your own- follow the rules and safety advice though!

[PeteMorris]

Well...According to preliminary figures by the ONS, it appears that the 'lure' argument in regard to e-cigs seems to not be reflected in the figures.

 

In other words, it has been argued that e-cigs could be a gateway to lure non-smokers into being addicted to nicotine. But the figures apparently say otherwise....or at least it's a minuscule percentage.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30192181

[biotechpete]

Well...According to preliminary figures by the ONS, it appears that the 'lure' argument in regard to e-cigs seems to not be reflected in the figures.

 

In other words, it has been argued that e-cigs could be a gateway to lure non-smokers into being addicted to nicotine. But the figures apparently say otherwise....or at least it's a minuscule percentage.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30192181

 

My personal interpretation of the data I have seen in academic studies suggests that there is a small percentage of users <2% for whom it is a gateway to smoking. There have been studies in Europe and the US showing that e-cig users are more likely to be young. In particular study, they show data indicating that in high school kids the rate of smoking has stopped dropping and overall nicotine product use increased last year (mostly due to e-cigs).

 

IMHO, we'll see in the next couple of years the data which shows smoking in under 18s and under 24s on the way up again.

 

---------- Post added 26-11-2014 at 11:51 ----------

 

It's also interesting that the ONS data of about 2000 households shows a much lower level of e-cig use among never smokers than a previous huge european study (1.2%) of >26000 respondents. There's also a fatal flaw to using this data to assess the gateway phenomenon i.e. how many of the current smokers using e-cigs started on e-cigs?

 

I wonder in how many households the parents fill out the responses to the questions and the teenager isn't going to tell their parents their using e-cigs. This might mean that the vast majority of e-cig users who have never smoked are actually young.

Edited November 26, 2014 by biotechpete

[biotechpete]

I've not read the thread because I can't be arsed. But do these actually work?

 

They work... in as much as an experienced user will get as much of a nicotine hit from an e-cig as from a traditional one. I am not really sure of the 'giving up' thing though. People say that e-cigs helped them give up smoking, but they are still on the e-cigs so whether it helps you kick the habit altogether I am not sure. Most people I have spoken to really seem to get on OK with them though and they are much better than smoking.

 

One friend of mine went back to smoking as she was cutting down. She couldn't get a liquid with low enough nicotine in apparently.

[PeteMorris]

My personal interpretation of the data I have seen in academic studies suggests that there is a small percentage of users <2% for whom it is a gateway to smoking. There have been studies in Europe and the US showing that e-cig users are more likely to be young. In particular study, they show data indicating that in high school kids the rate of smoking has stopped dropping and overall nicotine product use increased last year (mostly due to e-cigs).

 

IMHO, we'll see in the next couple of years the data which shows smoking in under 18s and under 24s on the way up again.

 

---------- Post added 26-11-2014 at 11:51 ----------

 

It's also interesting that the ONS data of about 2000 households shows a much lower level of e-cig use among never smokers than a previous huge european study (1.2%) of >26000 respondents. There's also a fatal flaw to using this data to assess the gateway phenomenon i.e. how many of the current smokers using e-cigs started on e-cigs?

 

I wonder in how many households the parents fill out the responses to the questions and the teenager isn't going to tell their parents their using e-cigs. This might mean that the vast majority of e-cig users who have never smoked are actually young.

 

Well I suppose statistics can be made to say whatever you like really....But in other threads to do with statistics by the ONS, it's been argued that those stats are right....I wouldn't agree wholly with that...but by and large they tend to be.

 

On your point of how many 'current smokers' using ecigs, started by using ecigs....I'd say very few, as without exception (being and ex smoker and now an ecig user) every single person I have ever come across that uses them, does so in an attempt to give up....I've never come across anyone who has 'started' smoking by taking up ecigs first....But of course that's hardly scientific I know...It's just my personal experience

[biotechpete]

Well I suppose statistics can be made to say whatever you like really....But in other threads to do with statistics by the ONS, it's been argued that those stats are right....I wouldn't agree wholly with that...but by and large they tend to be.

 

On your point of how many 'current smokers' using ecigs, started by using ecigs....I'd say very few, as without exception (being and ex smoker and now an ecig user) every single person I have ever come across that uses them, does so in an attempt to give up....I've never come across anyone who has 'started' smoking by taking up ecigs first....But of course that's hardly scientific I know...It's just my personal experience

 

Yes I take the point that ONS data is normally pretty robust, and I regard it as such too. But I don't understand this discrepancy between UK and rest of the world data showing that e-cig users who have never smoked is higher than they say.

 

I don't know many school kids and there are no studies of UK school kids take up of e-cigs. There are some from the US which show that over half of lifetime e-cig users who started in High School initiated on e-cigs rather than tobacco. Equally there is data from the US that shows overall tobacco/nicotine consumption in high school kids is increasing where before it was declining. There's no way to know for certain whether the US is predictive of the UK but I guess it probably is.

[MikeDaMouse]

Im sure I read / heard somewhere that they are MORE addictive than fags themselves, Is that true? Have you found them to be?

I stopped smoking using the chewing gum, never tried one of them E-cigs.