evildrneil Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Right, so we increase the minimum wage making no one better off, and in doing so we increase unemployment because some companies will just move abroad. That sounds like aplan. A large chunk of these low wage jobs are in the service sector where there is no possibility of the companies moving abroad - are you really going to go abroad to pay for your shopping or get a cup of coffee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Apparently. The national minimum wage has led to 78,000 job losses on the High Street, the British Retail Consortium has said. Well the British Retail Consortium would say that, they've got a vested interest. Even David Cameron has said "it's an idea whose time has come" The darling of the hard right Ian Duncan Smith said "We are very keen on trying to move towards a living wage, work should pay, that’s the key" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 A large chunk of these low wage jobs are in the service sector where there is no possibility of the companies moving abroad - are you really going to go abroad to pay for your shopping or get a cup of coffee? And a large chunk are not, so will some jobs have an higher minimum wage than other jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Instead of countries having local economies, we now have multinationals that trade worldwide. So the workers in this country, are competing with the workers in China and Japan; so yes, its a race downwards. Unless of course we have trade agreements. Not forgetting of course that as capital has become globalised labour will follow. The trade union movement is painfully slow, but I believe that they will act as a bulwark against the rapacious aspects of capitalism as they did in the 19th and 20th centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Well the British Retail Consortium would say that, they've got a vested interest. Even David Cameron has said "it's an idea whose time has come" The darling of the hard right Ian Duncan Smith said "We are very keen on trying to move towards a living wage, work should pay, that’s the key" Then why are Ministers considering freezing or even cutting the minimum wage. UK officials are considering the freeze this time because they’re concerned that the yearly rises in the minimum wage, which is currently 6.19 pounds, have been having an adverse effect on the country’s employment situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrneil Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 And a large chunk are not, so will some jobs have an higher minimum wage than other jobs. So what minimum wage jobs would be lost overseas? Lets take a quick look - the 20 lowest paid jobs are: Waiter £12,117 -0.7 Hairdresser £12,219 -4.4 Bar staff £12,399 +2.0 Kitchen/catering assistant £12,422 -2.7 Leisure attendant £12,585 -3.9 Florist £13,227 -7.1 Sales assistant £13,449 + 7.7 Launderer/dry cleaner £13,479 +1.3 Cashier £13,542 +3.1 Domestic cleaner £14,144 +0.1 Hotel porter £14,515 +6.5 Shelf filler £14,364 +5.0 Retail assistant £14,521 +2.8 Nursery nurse £14,554 -1.2 Housekeeper £14,560 +2.9 Animal care assistant £14,830 -10.6 Office assistant £14,993 +4.8 Beautician £14,984 -1.6 Sewing machinist £15,057 +5.7 Fishmonger £15,453 +12.1 (Source - Ashe survey 2011) How many of those can be out sourced overseas? Lets face it the low paid, low skilled jobs that can be out-sourced already have been (call center staff etc.) so what makes you think a relatively small rise in minimum wage (from £6.19 to £7.45 per hour) is going to make the UK uncompetitive? The jobs that make us competitive are not the minimum wage jobs but the high skilled, high payed jobs that won't be affected by such a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 So what minimum wage jobs would be lost overseas? Lets take a quick look - the 20 lowest paid jobs are: Waiter £12,117 -0.7 Hairdresser £12,219 -4.4 Bar staff £12,399 +2.0 Kitchen/catering assistant £12,422 -2.7 Leisure attendant £12,585 -3.9 Florist £13,227 -7.1 Sales assistant £13,449 + 7.7 Launderer/dry cleaner £13,479 +1.3 Cashier £13,542 +3.1 Domestic cleaner £14,144 +0.1 Hotel porter £14,515 +6.5 Shelf filler £14,364 +5.0 Retail assistant £14,521 +2.8 Nursery nurse £14,554 -1.2 Housekeeper £14,560 +2.9 Animal care assistant £14,830 -10.6 Office assistant £14,993 +4.8 Beautician £14,984 -1.6 Sewing machinist £15,057 +5.7 Fishmonger £15,453 +12.1 (Source - Ashe survey 2011) How many of those can be out sourced overseas? Lets face it the low paid, low skilled jobs that can be out-sourced already have been (call center staff etc.) so what makes you think a relatively small rise in minimum wage (from £6.19 to £7.45 per hour) is going to make the UK uncompetitive? The jobs that make us competitive are not the minimum wage jobs but the high skilled, high payed jobs that won't be affected by such a change. Some have, but many haven't, and increases at the bottom will lead to increases further up the pay scale. Tills can be automated and as wages increase so do products, which leads to fewer sales and fewer employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 So what minimum wage jobs would be lost overseas? Lets take a quick look - the 20 lowest paid jobs are: Waiter £12,117 -0.7 Hairdresser £12,219 -4.4 Bar staff £12,399 +2.0 Kitchen/catering assistant £12,422 -2.7 Leisure attendant £12,585 -3.9 Florist £13,227 -7.1 Sales assistant £13,449 + 7.7 Launderer/dry cleaner £13,479 +1.3 Cashier £13,542 +3.1 Domestic cleaner £14,144 +0.1 Hotel porter £14,515 +6.5 Shelf filler £14,364 +5.0 Retail assistant £14,521 +2.8 Nursery nurse £14,554 -1.2 Housekeeper £14,560 +2.9 Animal care assistant £14,830 -10.6 Office assistant £14,993 +4.8 Beautician £14,984 -1.6 Sewing machinist £15,057 +5.7 Fishmonger £15,453 +12.1 (Source - Ashe survey 2011) How many of those can be out sourced overseas? Lets face it the low paid, low skilled jobs that can be out-sourced already have been (call center staff etc.) so what makes you think a relatively small rise in minimum wage (from £6.19 to £7.45 per hour) is going to make the UK uncompetitive? The jobs that make us competitive are not the minimum wage jobs but the high skilled, high payed jobs that won't be affected by such a change. If you have alot of staff on minimum wage, a 20% payrise maybe an extinction level event for alot of businesses. I'm all for a living wage but it shouldn't be compulsary with little or no notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Some have, but many haven't, and increases at the bottom will lead to increases further up the pay scale. Tills can be automated and as wages increase so do products, which leads to fewer sales and fewer employees. Do you not think therefore that we should be investing more in high tech jobs? Rather than rely on cheapskate exploiters and sweatshop labour My opinion is that governments of both colours over the last 30 years have done far to little, rather rely on the free market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrneil Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 If you have alot of staff on minimum wage, a 20% payrise maybe an extinction level event for alot of businesses. I'm all for a living wage but it shouldn't be compulsary with little or no notice. If you have a lot of staff on minimum wage then you are probably of the like of McDonalds, Tesco or the like who have grotesquely huge turnovers and are more than capable of paying a minimum wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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