Zafar Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 But this is not some Muslim country (yet...) in Asia, this is Britain. Peaceful protests are fine, but there is no place in our *civilised* society for people waving around placards inciting mass murder. Muslims may place an (misguided and misplaced) importance on their religion, but that doesn't mean it should be an untouchable subject and it certainly doesn't excuse them from wishing death on anyone. Hey I dont condone it. I'm just saying that it happens. As for placing misguided and misplaced importance on their religion, who can say with absolute certainly who is misguided and who is misplaced ? I agree that it shouldn't be an untouchable subject, but neither can it be an exercise to insult people with the excuse being either Freedom of Speach or an ignorance of others beliefs and customs. "Say what you like about God - but be careful with Mohamed." So goes an old maxim among Western missionaries in Islamic lands, who found that Muslims might sometimes endure insulting references to the Almighty but would rarely tolerate insults to Mohamed or his family. The missionaries couldn't fathom it. Nor, ever since, it seems, has the rest of Western society http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/article343048.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t020 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Think of how much better the world would be if Islam inspired the same sort of outrage against shooting, stabbing, burning, stoning, and blasting innocent people into bits as it does over silly cartoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Think of how much better the world would be if Islam inspired the same sort of outrage against shooting, stabbing, burning, stoning, and blasting innocent people into bits as it does over silly cartoons. True, but at the same time we could make it a much better world by not being so arrogant and insulting billions of people for no other purpose than to exercise our rights, instead if we showed abit more reason we would not think it sensible to the cartoons. I'm sure you'll find that if you printed abusive cartoons of other religous figures who are held in high esteem E.g. Sikhism or Hinduism you'd end up with a similar reaction from some in those groups. Again would it be their fault to react to our insulting their revered figures or our fault for being insensitive at best or insulting and stupid at worst ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Best-selling author and Muslim dissident Ibn Warraq argues that freedom of expression is our western heritage and we must defend it against attacks from totalitarian societies. If the west does not stand in solidarity with the Danish, he argues, then the Islamization of Europe will have begun in earnest. The great British philosopher John Stuart Mill wrote in On Liberty, “Strange it is, that men should admit the validity of the arguments for free discussion, but object to their being ‘pushed to an extreme’; not seeing that unless the reasons are good for an extreme case, they are not good for any case.” The cartoons in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten raise the most important question of our times: freedom of expression. Are we in the west going to cave into pressure from societies with a medieval mindset, or are we going to defend our most precious freedom — freedom of expression, a freedom for which thousands of people sacrificed their lives? A democracy cannot survive long without freedom of expression, the freedom to argue, to dissent, even to insult and offend. It is a freedom sorely lacking in the Islamic world, and without it Islam will remain unassailed in its dogmatic, fanatical, medieval fortress; ossified, totalitarian and intolerant. Without this fundamental freedom, Islam will continue to stifle thought, human rights, individuality; originality and truth. Unless, we show some solidarity, unashamed, noisy, public solidarity with the Danish cartoonists, then the forces that are trying to impose on the Free West a totalitarian ideology will have won; the Islamization of Europe will have begun in earnest. Do not apologize. Whose getting hysterical now ? How does that old saying go....'Ignorance breeds Fear' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t020 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 True, but at the same time we could make it a much better world by not being so arrogant and insulting billions of people for no other purpose than to exercise our rights, instead if we showed abit more reason we would not think it sensible to the cartoons. I'm sure you'll find that if you printed abusive cartoons of other religous figures who are held in high esteem E.g. Sikhism or Hinduism you'd end up with a similar reaction from some in those groups. I can't really imagine it provoking the same level of reaction in any other religion. There's only one religion in the world today that's "involved", in some way or another, in many of the world's problems. Again would it be their fault to react to our insulting their revered figures or our fault for being insensitive at best or insulting and stupid at worst ? Their fault. If I insulted someone in the street, I'd expect to be insulted back. I wouldn't expect for the person to go away, whip up a mob, and call for me to be beheaded. The reaction to these cartoons is so inordinate that it would almost be laughable if it wasn't so worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t020 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Whose getting hysterical now ? How does that old saying go....'Ignorance breeds Fear' Ibn Warraq is. That post was quoted from an article by him. I thought I'd throw in his slant as I find it largely agreeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 You fail to recognise that in this so called freedom you talk about there are ALREADY laws that limit what you can say and who you can say it about. You can get jailed for denying the holocoast... You can get prosecuted for drawing anti-semitic cartoons (although it doesn't apply to all semites ofcourse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zafar Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Ibn Warraq is. That post was quoted from an article by him. I thought I'd throw in his slant as I find it largely agreeable. what you were quoting Ibn Warraq with Unless, we show some solidarity, unashamed, noisy, public solidarity with the Danish cartoonists, then the forces that are trying to impose on the Free West a totalitarian ideology will have won; the Islamization of Europe will have begun in earnest. Do not apologize. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pseudonym Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I fail to see how those who find our culture and traditions so abhorrent to them, can bear to continue to live here... This I see as exemplifying their stupidity. More to the point, I also fail to see how those who threaten the lives of others, can be allowed to continue to live here... This I see as exemplifying OUR stupidity. Concerning the recent furore... I consider this to be a neat summary. "I have noticed outrage from muslims about the cartoons, but I have not noticed similar outrage from muslims concerning the devastation and carnage that radical Islamists have caused..." Paraphrased from a 'Net comment, no link given out of deference to the expressed wishes of this site-owner, as the page shows the cartoons mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Clavin Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Just as I was convincing friends around me that Muslims in general are normal people like everyone else, this $hi££ty story involving a minority of "FANATICS destroys all my hard work!!! Oh well at least I know most Muslims are just interested in a normal life. I suppose it takes away from the real problems which we really face though, how long they can hide them I don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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