Margaret Thatcher Thread - Read the first post before posting

[Bonzo77]

Bold - as you are doing right now to the memory of a person recently deceased!!!

 

How could she have done it better? The unions had been going on strike at the drop of a hat - look back in history and read up about the Three Day Week, the Winter of Discontent, Wildcat Strikes etc., in the '70's. The unions showed very little appetite for dialogue unless it was 'yes, [name of union] we'll give you what you want'.

 

And why is it that many hold Scargill in such high regard, like some modern day Robin Hood? He called a strike without a ballot. He refused to ballot his members when repeatedly requested to do so. He embarked on a personal crusade to destroy Thatcher and the Tory govt (at the expense of the members of the Union and the wider public (something, sadly, he miscalculated - funny how the govt of the day decided not to allow a return to the three day week, where the unions actions affected the entire population of the country (but, hey, let's not romance and good story get in the way of actual facts!).

 

Scargill destroyed the NUM - and that is something the NUM say, not Tories nor Thatcher apologists.

 

By the way, were you around during the dark days of the '70's? Or have you just googled a few facts?

 

People bemoan Thatcher's actions, but they brush under the carpet the actions of the unions in the '70's, which had wider impact on more of society.

 

What were the unions after?? Better pay for the workers?? What's wrong with that??

 

People used to risk their lives day in, day out working in the pits. It's hardly surprising that they wanted a better deal for their workers. Unions having the power to strike is a vital bargaining tool; just like the fire fighters union today.

 

And no, I can't really remember the 70's, I did most of my growing up in the 80's and my Dad & Granddad were miners, at Staveley. They were both at Orgreave and they both got their heads kicked in by the the Met Police.

 

---------- Post added 13-04-2013 at 09:22 ----------

 

Net personal wealth increased by 80%.

 

Ha Ha Ha HA!! For who? Try telling that to the thousands of families that lost their job, home and even lives during the 80's!

 

---------- Post added 13-04-2013 at 09:25 ----------

 

How about lowering income tax - oh, no, wait - that only benefitted those in work. Damn!

 

Yeah, and Thatcher made millions unemployed! Give with one hand, take with the other!!

 

---------- Post added 13-04-2013 at 09:38 ----------

 

You mean they chased you or do you mean you were caught up in the melee that surrounded the miner's strike?

 

No doubt, there were heavy handed tactics, but I would say, from an unbiased standpoint, this was probably oon both sides.

 

Sorry, but this is ridiculous! My Dad was attacked my police on horseback while having a 'sit down' protest!

 

The Met Police were poking the miners (who had been on strike, without an income for many months) with a stick! They stood waving £10 notes at the miners, highlighting the fact that they were on triple time while the miners had no income.

 

Some of the pr**ks even removed their police badges and numbers from their uniform to symbolise that the fight was a personal matter for them.

 

They were brought up north for a fight, nothing more!!

[I1L2T3]

I'm not saying that governments don't waste money because wasting is something they are all very good at.

 

But what specifically did she spend the oil revenue on that you consider to be a waste,

 

She used it to keep public borrowing down as the link says. One of the effects of this was that spending on unemployment benefits could be contained. In that sense it provided headroom to disband the old industries and shift the focus of the economy to the service and finance sectors.

 

Now if you think about that extra oil revenue could have been used in a radically different and beneficial way. It could have been used to gradually modernise industry over a longer time frame. For a less destructive agenda.

 

One of the other challenges British industry faced was that the soaring oil and gas revenues strengthened the pound creating a tough environment for exporters. Thatcher also chose that moment to cut taxes creating demand in the economy. The strong pound meant cheap imports - domestic British manufacturers could not compete. Also, the oil revenues helped mask a growing balance of trade issue.

 

Put simply, the only time Britain has ever been self-sufficient in oil and gas was 1980 -90, for almost the entire Thatcher tenure. We have nothing to show for it. Norway enjoyed a similar boom and now has a sovereign wealth fund worth hundreds of billions.

 

They could have been the best of times. But nothing was saved. It was all wasted on short-term political agendas.

[Hillpig]

I left the UK in the early 80s and well remember the situation the country was in during the 60s and 70s. The UK was finished, "the sick man of Europe" the unions had gone mad and sought to overthrow the elected government. Had Callaghan won the 79 election we would now be in the same situation as Albania, Cuba or North Korea.

 

Labour policy was fo us to leave NATO and the EEC. We would have destroyed our relationship with Europe and the US.

 

Thatcher won, took on and defeated the unions, she, against advice, freed the Falklands from a Fascist junta.

 

She, with Reagan, brought about the end of communism, now millions of people throughout eastern Europe are free, due to Thatcher.

 

She is a colossus, the finest politician this country has had since Disraeli.

[I1L2T3]

I left the UK in the early 80s and well remember the situation the country was in during the 60s and 70s. The UK was finished, "the sick man of Europe" the unions had gone mad and sought to overthrow the elected government. Had Callaghan won the 79 election we would now be in the same situation as Albania, Cuba or North Korea.

 

Labour policy was fo us to leave NATO and the EEC. We would have destroyed our relationship with Europe and the US.

 

Thatcher won, took on and defeated the unions, she, against advice, freed the Falklands from a Fascist junta.

 

She, with Reagan, brought about the end of communism, now millions of people throughout eastern Europe are free, due to Thatcher.

 

She is a colossus, the finest politician this country has had since Disraeli.

 

Most of that seems on the whole like a pretty fair assessment of her international achievements.

 

But Thatcher saved us from being like North Korea? I've read some ridiculous stuff on here but never anything quite as bad as that.

[Head first]

What were the unions after?? Better pay for the workers?? What's wrong with that??

 

People used to risk their lives day in, day out working in the pits. It's hardly surprising that they wanted a better deal for their workers. Unions having the power to strike is a vital bargaining tool; just like the fire fighters union today.

 

And no, I can't really remember the 70's, I did most of my growing up in the 80's and my Dad & Granddad were miners, at Staveley. They were both at Orgreave and they both got their heads kicked in by the the Met Police.

Ha Ha Ha HA!! For who? Try telling that to the thousands of families that lost their job, home and even lives during the 80's!

Britains heavy industries became obsolete and inefficient, evidenced by the fact they required tax payer money to keep going; they can't have been much good if they couldn't thrive on their own.

 

Harsh economic reality in a globalised world closed Britain's steel works and coal mines not Thatcher.

 

Trade unions and the left of the Labour party to this day propagate the myth that Thatcher shut perfectly good steel works and coal mines out of pure vindictiveness, because she hated working class people, and so many dumb people swallow this.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Head first

[I1L2T3]

Britains heavy industries became obsolete and inefficient, evidenced by the fact they required tax payer money to keep going; they can't have been much good if they couldn't thrive on their own.

 

Trade unions and the left of the Labour party to this day propagate the myth that Thatcher shut perfectly good steel works and coal mines out of pure vindictiveness, because she hated working class people, and so many dumb people swallow this.

 

Harsh economic reality in a globalised world closed Britain's steel works and coal mines not Thatcher.

 

Not all industry was obsolete. Some was but that didn't mean it all was. Much of it could have been modernised and saved. Some of it had already been modernised.

 

We have gone from taxpayer subsidies for heavy industry to taxpayer subsidies for the finance sector. Our economy is just as unbalanced as it was in the 70s.

[Head first]

Not all industry was obsolete. Some was but that didn't mean it all was. Much of it could have been modernised and saved. Some of it had already been modernised.

 

We have gone from taxpayer subsidies for heavy industry to taxpayer subsidies for the finance sector. Our economy is just as unbalanced as it was in the 70s.

 

But the stubborn unions resisted real and proper modernisation didn't they, knowing that it would have meant streamlining and some job loss's?

[MrSmith]

She used it to keep public borrowing down as the link says. One of the effects of this was that spending on unemployment benefits could be contained. In that sense it provided headroom to disband the old industries and shift the focus of the economy to the service and finance sectors.

 

Thats a good thing, its public borrowing that is now the problem.

 

 

Now if you think about that extra oil revenue could have been used in a radically different and beneficial way. It could have been used to gradually modernise industry over a longer time frame. For a less destructive agenda.

That could never have happened until the unions had been destroyed because they were an uncompromising bunch with no interest in the country and where more than happy to blackmail the population.

 

One of the other challenges British industry faced was that the soaring oil and gas revenues strengthened the pound creating a tough environment for exporters. Thatcher also chose that moment to cut taxes creating demand in the economy. The strong pound meant cheap imports - domestic British manufacturers could not compete. Also, the oil revenues helped mask a growing balance of trade issue.

 

Put simply, the only time Britain has ever been self-sufficient in oil and gas was 1980 -90, for almost the entire Thatcher tenure. We have nothing to show for it. Norway enjoyed a similar boom and now has a sovereign wealth fund worth hundreds of billions.

 

They could have been the best of times. But nothing was saved. It was all wasted on short-term political agendas.

 

Norway as significantly more gas and oil and a significantly smaller population so not a very good comparison. .

[I1L2T3]

Thats a good thing, its public borrowing that is now the problem.

 

 

 

That could never have happened until the unions had been destroyed because they were an uncompromising bunch with no interest in the country and where more than happy to blackmail the population.

 

 

 

Norway as significantly more gas and oil and a significantly smaller population so not a very good comparison. .

 

On the face of it keeping borrowing down was good until you realise what they would have been borroewing for.

 

Norway I'd the best comparison. No other democratic nation in northern Europe had an oil/ gas boom at the same time.

Industry could have been modernised. Not all unions were militant.

[MrSmith]

On the face of it keeping borrowing down was good until you realise what they would have been borroewing for.

 

Norway I'd the best comparison. No other democratic nation in northern Europe had an oil/ gas boom at the same time.

Industry could have been modernised. Not all unions were militant.

 

But still not a good one because of the significant difference in population size and oil and gas reserves..

 

But not a massive difference in how our workforce is distributed.

 

Norway Labor force ...............................UK Labor force

 

2.645 million (2012 est.)........................31.9 million (2012 est.)

Labor force - by occupation.....................Labor force - by occupation

 

agriculture: 2.9%..................................agriculture: 1.4%

industry: 21.1%....................................industry: 18.2%

services: 76% (2008 ).............................services: 80.4% (2006 est.)

Edited April 13, 2013 by MrSmith