Margaret Thatcher Thread - Read the first post before posting

[mikem8634]

Well as I mostly believe everything I read that suits my world view, then yes, I'm going to go with yes.

 

Self-awarenes is a quality worth admiration. I can't knock you for that.

[FACEBOOK]

Self-awarenes is a quality worth admiration. I can't knock you for that.

 

Why thank you Michael. Tip of the cap to you Sir.

[Manlinose]

For your weekend break visit Goldthorpe. Barnsleys gateway to the netherworld. See for yourself the six fingered families. Vist the schoolyard, 50 kids, three surnames.

 

See the view from Scargill hill an exact replica of a coal heap, breathe in the specially prepared coal dust.

 

Visit the "Rusty Dudley" Goldthorpes premier award winning hostelry where you are guaranteed a good pint, a packet of crisps and a look at todays "Socialist Worker".

 

Shed a tear when you visit the "Look what she did to us" Gallery at the Thatcher memorial museum.

 

Yes, if you have nothing to do, like a good laugh at others expense please visit this last outpost of utter stupidity, bad taste and generous benefits.

 

Goldthorpe; Sorry for ourselves for 25 years and still going strong.

 

i was born and brought up near goldthorpe - it has its fair share of people it is easy to mock and criticise - as does sheffield and most other northern predominantly working class areas

 

it was never paradise, but it has deteriorated as a place to live and socialise over the years - principally due to the coal mines closing and the employable residents chasing decreasingly fewer and lower paid jobs - most of those that could get out did - some were unable to do so for various reasons - lack of skills, inability to get a job that would pay enough to cover living costs, inability to sell their existing house due to the lack of demand, and in some cases a lack of imagination

 

but the (silent) majority of its people are fine, upstanding working class people many of whom i am proud to call friends and who have a bit more tolerance, understanding and compassion than some posters on here

 

i have friends who were miners - i have friends who joined the police - the school re-union was interesting! and the animosity held by some directly affected has not softened all these years later - even within families

 

being a live and let live, why can't we all get along type of person, i don't really understand the strong feelings after all this time, but i know that for a lot of them it is not because of a lack of intelligence or education

[fishy_taste]

There was nothing wrong with selling or buying the council houses per se. The problem was in not using the profits to replenish the stock.

 

I've been thinking about this 'argument' for a while and I have to say I am baffled.

 

The people who were offered the 'Right to Buy' were already living in those houses and had done so for a number of years (in order to qualify). So, what 'stock' were they taking?

 

While they were residing in the house it was not available stock - so buying it or living in it was the same thing.

 

Now, if they chose to rent it out (I'm not completely certain if they could have taken another council house, though I am guessing there would have been conditions in place to prevent this), then they would have taken private build stock. At that point, the ex-council house now privately owned, would have been 'lost' stock, to subsidised rent, but it would have been available to rent - privately of by a council/housing association, which is something is done now, very often paid for by the council as the tenants are very often low paid (and qualify for welfare assistance) or are on benefits.

 

So, in truth, where is the 'lost' stock.

 

If someone had bought their council house and had then demolished (stupid, I know), then that would truly be 'lost' stock.

 

So, I really don't buy this replace lost stock argument - it's a smokescreen fabrication to substantiate the left attack on Thatcher's aspirational policy.

 

The left didn't like it because it eroded their influence.

[Hots on]

If its correct what I heard that Sheffield council didn't put the Union flag at half mast then shame on them.

[fishy_taste]

i was born and brought up near goldthorpe - it has its fair share of people it is easy to mock and criticise - as does sheffield and most other northern predominantly working class areas

 

it was never paradise, but it has deteriorated as a place to live and socialise over the years - principally due to the coal mines closing and the employable residents chasing decreasingly fewer and lower paid jobs - most of those that could get out did - some were unable to do so for various reasons - lack of skills, inability to get a job that would pay enough to cover living costs, inability to sell their existing house due to the lack of demand, and in some cases a lack of imagination

 

but the (silent) majority of its people are fine, upstanding working class people many of whom i am proud to call friends and who have a bit more tolerance, understanding and compassion than some posters on here

 

i have friends who were miners - i have friends who joined the police - the school re-union was interesting! and the animosity held by some directly affected has not softened all these years later - even within families

 

being a live and let live, why can't we all get along type of person, i don't really understand the strong feelings after all this time, but i know that for a lot of them it is not because of a lack of intelligence or education

 

I thought Goldthorpe had closed suddenly in 1984, along with all the other pits and destroyed communities.

 

Having checked the facts, there were 2 pit closures in 84, 23 in 85 (7 in Wales)....

 

Goldthorpe closed in 1994 (ten years AFTER the miner's strike and approximately 2 years AFTER Thatcher left office.

 

I can understand the bitterness felt by those communities where the pits were closed suddenly, in 84, 85, 86 etc., - they had little time to adapt or evolve, but Goldthorpe had 10 (TEN) years to prepare.

 

They stood on the motorway and watched the juggernaut come trundling along and they never did anything to get out of the way or to avoid the 'crash'.

 

What I cannot understand is why, with so much warning (with pits closing year upon year, and surely Goldthorpe had been discussed as a possible pit closure way before 1994) not a single organisation or group did absolutely nothing to soften the impact?

 

By that I include the people of the area as much as the local council and national govt. Seems they sat back and waited for the State to sort it out.

 

---------- Post added 18-04-2013 at 17:04 ----------

 

Some iinteresting quotes:

 

“All right, if you cannot get a job, you shall have a basic standard of living!” but when people come and say: “But what is the point of working? I can get as much on the dole!” You say: “Look” It is not from the dole. It is your neighbour who is supplying it and if you can earn your own living then really you have a duty to do it and you will feel very much better!”

 

There is also something else I should say to them: “If that does not give you a basic standard, you know, there are ways in which we top up the standard. You can get your housing benefit.”

 

we want the spread of personal property ever wider, not only because we want the material benefits to spread further wider, but because we believe when you have that personal property you get a much greater feeling of responsibility because you have to exercise responsibility towards it. Because you respect your own you respect also other people's. Therefore, it is a way of bringing about much greater sort of personal responsibility to a society of which you are a part,...

 

so that people who will live in rented accommodation for ever will, I hope, be able to have more choice of what landlord they shall have and I hope that we can bring more private renting back, because that really was one of the things that enabled people to move from one town to another—rent a property for a time and then buy.

 

But society as such does not exist except as a concept. Society is made up of people. It is people who have duties and beliefs and resolve. It is people who get thing's done

 

The words of a heartless, uncaring person, eh?

[Manlinose]

I thought Goldthorpe had closed suddenly in 1984, along with all the other pits and destroyed communities.

 

Having checked the facts, there were 2 pit closures in 84, 23 in 85 (7 in Wales)....

 

Goldthorpe closed in 1994 (ten years AFTER the miner's strike and approximately 2 years AFTER Thatcher left office.

 

I can understand the bitterness felt by those communities where the pits were closed suddenly, in 84, 85, 86 etc., - they had little time to adapt or evolve, but Goldthorpe had 10 (TEN) years to prepare.

 

They stood on the motorway and watched the juggernaut come trundling along and they never did anything to get out of the way or to avoid the 'crash'.

 

What I cannot understand is why, with so much warning (with pits closing year upon year, and surely Goldthorpe had been discussed as a possible pit closure way before 1994) not a single organisation or group did absolutely nothing to soften the impact?

 

By that I include the people of the area as much as the local council and national govt. Seems they sat back and waited for the State to sort it out.

 

not sure if i clipped that correctly so this response might make a bit less sense than usual

 

to some extent you are right - but not everyone had the ability to move - what you are also missing is that many of the miners in the area didn't work in the pit in their town - they worked in other pits in the area - some who lived in Goldthorpe worked at Hickleton, Houghton, Cortonwood, Barnburgh, Yorkshire Main etc - some even further afield - as the pits closed some moved to others, some were made redundant - my memory isn't what it was but it wasn't always clear at the time which pits were going to close and which weren't and over what period - it may have been hope over reality, but some remained optimistic

 

it isn't that no-one tried to soften the impact, it was that the efforts were a sticking plaster over a severed leg

[Mr Bloom]

I've been thinking about this 'argument' for a while and I have to say I am baffled.

 

The people who were offered the 'Right to Buy' were already living in those houses and had done so for a number of years (in order to qualify). So, what 'stock' were they taking?

 

While they were residing in the house it was not available stock - so buying it or living in it was the same thing.

 

Now, if they chose to rent it out (I'm not completely certain if they could have taken another council house, though I am guessing there would have been conditions in place to prevent this), then they would have taken private build stock. At that point, the ex-council house now privately owned, would have been 'lost' stock, to subsidised rent, but it would have been available to rent - privately of by a council/housing association, which is something is done now, very often paid for by the council as the tenants are very often low paid (and qualify for welfare assistance) or are on benefits.

 

So, in truth, where is the 'lost' stock.

 

If someone had bought their council house and had then demolished (stupid, I know), then that would truly be 'lost' stock.

 

So, I really don't buy this replace lost stock argument - it's a smokescreen fabrication to substantiate the left attack on Thatcher's aspirational policy.

 

The left didn't like it because it eroded their influence.

 

And you think the people of Goldthorpe are thick?

[mikem8634]

I've been thinking about this 'argument' for a while and I have to say I am baffled.

 

The people who were offered the 'Right to Buy' were already living in those houses and had done so for a number of years (in order to qualify). So, what 'stock' were they taking?

 

While they were residing in the house it was not available stock - so buying it or living in it was the same thing.

 

Now, if they chose to rent it out (I'm not completely certain if they could have taken another council house, though I am guessing there would have been conditions in place to prevent this), then they would have taken private build stock. At that point, the ex-council house now privately owned, would have been 'lost' stock, to subsidised rent, but it would have been available to rent - privately of by a council/housing association, which is something is done now, very often paid for by the council as the tenants are very often low paid (and qualify for welfare assistance) or are on benefits.

 

So, in truth, where is the 'lost' stock.

 

If someone had bought their council house and had then demolished (stupid, I know), then that would truly be 'lost' stock.

 

So, I really don't buy this replace lost stock argument - it's a smokescreen fabrication to substantiate the left attack on Thatcher's aspirational policy.

 

The left didn't like it because it eroded their influence.

 

Tenants move on by choice or death and the council house is returned to the stock.

 

The sold houses were removed from that cycle and not replaced.

[msmouse]

Whatever has been said in this thread thus far (which is becoming like a tennis match - points for, points against, no ultimate resolution), all I can say is that Thatcher's ultimate (and continuing) legacy is;

 

SELFISHNESS (I'm all right Jack etc)

 

No sense of community, setting the poor against the poor (so as nobody looks up to who is really screwing the non-elite).

 

To be honest I would have rather have lived through WW2 with the 'Blitz spirit'. Despite the bombs, rationing and the like, people STUCK together and helped each other.

 

Now it's arguments over who has the biggest plasma screen TV (which is not edible) and no-one gives a flying duck about anything else