mikem8634 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 No, it's the act of that blood thirsty chap who comes and picks you up at 3 in the morning to ferry you around after the lad that serves you a pint of lager and a Chicken tikka masala when you're hungry. C'mon, get with it! their in cahoots. Ha, ha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22091107 All pleaded guilty There plans if carried out would have killed many many people , surely it's time for the death penalty . I've no time for death penalties. A 400 year life sentence would sound pretty good, however. ---------- Post added 11-04-2013 at 06:38 ---------- The problem is that it's not people who were previously radicalised or even Muslim that are falling prey to them. Petty criminals from muslim ( and even non-muslim in some cases) backgrounds are getting brainwashed in UK jails by these people. For the weak minded a "noble cause" in their otherwise pointless life holds an allure so we're seeing a marked increase in jailhouse Muslims emering from prison as radicals. As far as the reaction to killing them, Abdul aziz rantisi, Ahmed yassin, mussab al zarqawi, even bin Ladin - all caused a lot of both alive, once killed they haven't been magnets for jihadi recruitment despite the claims that they would. However that is an aside to the central question of why our policy of identify, target, kill is fine in other people's countries (and with an enemy as dangerous as these people I agree it is the right policy) why is it morally unacceptable here against people who are not just dangerous enemies but traitors to boot? I don't know. I don't get paid to make even silly low-level decisions nowadays - I'm retired. If I was the boss (and if I had even half a chance of getting away with it ) I would change things. I would stay within the law (to the letter) as far as I should do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillpig Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 As a white anglo saxon (born protestant but no religious affiliation now), who has spent many years in the east I thought my experience of encountering Islam in its various forms may be of help. It can be tolerant, but where "Wahhabi" is venerated it is a very dangerous divergence from any thing that could be considered tolerant or acceptable to a western secular society. It is not fair to the majority of Muslims to tar them with the same brush. But Wahhabism is growing and moderate muslims should take it on in the mosques and elsewhere were it is propounded. If they do not and it continues to grow, conflict is assured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 As a white anglo saxon (born protestant but no religious affiliation now), who has spent many years in the east I thought my experience of encountering Islam in its various forms may be of help. It can be tolerant, but where "Wahhabi" is venerated it is a very dangerous divergence from any thing that could be considered tolerant or acceptable to a western secular society. It is not fair to the majority of Muslims to tar them with the same brush. But Wahhabism is growing and moderate muslims should take it on in the mosques and elsewhere were it is propounded. If they do not and it continues to grow, conflict is assured. Interesting, thank you for your perspective. I agree, it is vitally important to recognise that Islam is multi-faceted and that moderate Muslims have a role to play, alongside the rest of us, in challenging extremism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz1 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Quote: Originally Posted by Halibut View Post It's a self evident truth, I don't need to. No they didn't. Islam doe not instruct it's believers to kill innocents and more than Christianity does. I could probably find links to disprove that statement but I would simply be going over old ground ,I know that statements wrong and you do as well Halibut's point still stands as Islam does not instruct the killing of innocent persons. I also googled as per your comment and on top of the list was the clearly fundamentalist Jew hating site you linked to- where on there does Islam (via the Quran) call for killing of Jews? This link also appears on the first page: http://www.loveallah.net/main/enrich/false%20claims%20about%20quran%20.html May be you should read what the Qu'ran says about killing of people, especially people of the Book (to which Christians and Jews belong to). Stop spreading your vile hate using ignorance- and out of context quotes to try and formalize an argument to make it look genuine. From the link I picked this nice quote : In what other culture has a tiny village like this [ referring to Malula, a Christian village in Syria] survived intact, keeping to its own ways, entirely surrounded by a rival religion for some 1,200 years? It was the Koran which made it possible, specifying that the people of the book—Christians and Jews—must be allowed to worship God in their own manner. This Koran-based tolerance has been the norm in terms of Muslim attitudes to the two closely-related religions. It is a modern aberration that the lethal mixture of politics, fundamentalism and terrorism—associated in particular with Al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden—is at present distorting the image of Islam. When the crusaders reached Syria, they were horrified to find Christians living peacefully under the Muslims. By that time, four centuries after the beginning of Islam, the Muslims had long been more civilized than any western Christian Bamber Gascoigne, Christianity: A History, p.73. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Islam does not instruct the killing of innocent persons. Innocent of what? and who are the Innocent persons? Does that mean they instruct the killing of guilty persons and what would they have to be guilty of? Maybe this is where the confusion lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Stop spreading your vile hate using ignorance- and out of context quotes to try and formalize an argument to make it look genuine[/Quote] Glamrocker's whole rhetoric relies on using out of context or worse blatant anti Islamic quotes. I have challenged him and many others to use the Quran itself, in context, to show us where this 'hatred' lies and I am still waiting for that evidence. I don't follow the Quran, I think there are things in it and things claimed by Muslims that can be challenged. I also think these things never come up on this forum because most of the debates revolve around blantant anti Islamic claptrap. Re. the O/P, I think long inprisonment would be far better than the death penalty. ---------- Post added 11-04-2013 at 17:55 ---------- Innocent of what? and who are the Innocent persons? Does that mean they instruct the killing of guilty persons and what would they have to be guilty of? Maybe this is where the confusion lies. I have shown you in detail the why's and wherefor's of where the Quran justifies killing people while you were using your alter ego. The confusion then it seemed lay in that you were unable to take my long and detailed post in context and merely picked out the bits that were out of context and justified your own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I have shown you in detail the why's and wherefor's of where the Quran justifies killing people while you were using your alter ego. Firstly I didn't ask you and secondly you have never explained to me which people can be killed according to Islam, so if you want to answer the question I asked, please do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Firstly I didn't ask you and secondly you have never explained to me which people can be killed according to Islam, so if you want to answer the question I asked, please do so. No I explained it to your alter ego, stop trying word works with me it doesn't work. I responded because it has been explained to you so there is no need for you to ask the question in the first place, the only reason you need ask is if you're trying to troll, but you'd never do that would you maxmaxismith. I'm tired, I've had some gob*** threaten me with a knife and I'm really, really spoiling so I suggest you accept my comment for what it was because I'm really not in the mood for you today. End of conversation with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 No I explained it to your alter ego, stop trying word works with me it doesn't work. I responded because it has been explained to you so there is no need for you to ask the question in the first place, the only reason you need ask is if you're trying to troll, but you'd never do that would you maxmaxismith. I'm tired, I've had some gob*** threaten me with a knife and I'm really, really spoiling so I suggest you accept my comment for what it was because I'm really not in the mood for you today. End of conversation with you. Hope you're okay Rich. Sounds truly awful. Don't worry about replying just do what you do and you'll get that equilibrium back. Take it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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