Fascism, is it really that bad

[LeMaquis]

Neither do you if you are prepared to deny that Spain, Greece, Argentina etc were at one time Fascist. So was Salazar's Portugal, I'd forgotten that one.

 

Seems to me you made an inaccurate statement that there had only ever been two Fascist States in History & then sought to back up your error by introducing a set of conditions that you alone accept.

 

By common definition the above mentioned Nations were Fascist.

 

Do some reading up on fascism and how it's defined. Spain, Greece and Argentina were military dictatorships. Salazar's Estada Novo was right-wing authoritarian but not fascist. Salazar banned fascist parties. You seem to think that just because you claim something to be true it automatically is.

[mjw47]

LeMaquis OK. I am going to attempt this one more time, I have already posted this previously but someone removed it, presumably because the facts interfered with their previously stated opinions.

 

Oxford Dictionary Definition of Fascist.

 

1. A right-wing system of Government characterized by extreme nationalistic beliefs and strict obedience to a leader or the State.

 

2.Extreme right-wing or intolerant views or behaviour.

 

Please take note of the last three words of 1 above.

 

Now please explain to me how the countries I stated were Fascist including Franco's Spain, The Colonels Greece & Argentina under the Junta were not Fascist.

 

You my friend are the one apparently convinced, like Humpty Dumpty, that words 'mean what you want them to mean'.

[Halibut]

Thanks for that, I'm reasonably new to this Forum & although I read others this is the only one I post on.

So, I shouldn't expect a reply to my post at 92 above any time soon then?

 

It's safe to ignore those remarks. Mr Cocker has 'issues'.

[mjw47]

It's safe to ignore those remarks. Mr Cocker has 'issues'.

 

Don't know anything about that, either before my time on here or on a thread I didn't read.

I am aware however, that several posts have been removed from this thread, presumably by people who's arguments had been defeated by facts but who wished to continue on a 'wind up'.

 

Sound like anyone you know?

[LeMaquis]

LeMaquis OK. I am going to attempt this one more time, I have already posted this previously but someone removed it, presumably because the facts interfered with their previously stated opinions.

 

Oxford Dictionary Definition of Fascist.

 

1. A right-wing system of Government characterized by extreme nationalistic beliefs and strict obedience to a leader or the State.

 

2.Extreme right-wing or intolerant views or behaviour.

 

Please take note of the last three words of 1 above.

 

Now please explain to me how the countries I stated were Fascist including Franco's Spain, The Colonels Greece & Argentina under the Junta were not Fascist.

 

You my friend are the one apparently convinced, like Humpty Dumpty, that words 'mean what you want them to mean'.

 

If it winds you up for me to reply, reply I will.

 

You need to be a lot more scientific than using a dictionary quotation. Whole books have been written on the subject. A couple of sentences doesn't sum up the subject.

 

Your definition is inadequate in that it leaves a lot out. Film on telly last week showed a lot of clips of Tory Party conferences of the 80s - hysteria, flag-waving, abolishing democratically elected councils, etc. - but as bad as Maggie was she wasn't a fascist.

 

One thing you left out was the presence of a vanguard party and the Fuhrerprinzip. Ethnocentricity too. Revolutionary national renewal also. The military dictatorships you quote did not have these.

 

You also have ignored the fact that Franco kept Spain neutral during World War II. Why would he did that if he were part of fascist axis? He merged the fascist Falange with the Carlists and kept fascists out of his administration.

 

The mistake you make is to believe that all right wing nationalistic authoritarian regimes are fascist. They're not. Go to the library and educate yourself about political differences. You may get rid of your simplistic black and white beliefs.

[mjw47]

Oh for Gods sake Lemaquis, things are really not that complicated. There are a number of types of Regimes & methods of Government in the World.

In order to easily & quickly describe a particular type to someone in conversation or correspondence we have an agreed general shorthand description of each.

Monarchism, Communism,Fascism, Capitalism etc OK?

 

Are there variances between some of these Regimes despite falling in the same category?

Yes there are, people unlike Ants & Bees, have quite a few differences in behaviour.

 

However, for the purposes of actually holding a discussion & describing a method of Government in a way that Everyone can understand then the above one word descriptions are both correct & precise.

 

All of the Countries which I described as Fascist were, at one point in their history, Fascist.

 

Should you wish to continue our disagreement on this point then I suggest you come up with a ONE WORD description which we can all immediately recognize as a more accurate description of the method of Governing used during the period when I, & the rest of the World ,was under the impression that that particular country was in fact Fascist.

[Halibut]

Oh for Gods sake Lemaquis, things are really not that complicated. There are a number of types of Regimes & methods of Government in the World.

In order to easily & quickly describe a particular type to someone in conversation or correspondence we have an agreed general shorthand description of each.

Monarchism, Communism,Fascism, Capitalism etc OK?

 

Are there variances between some of these Regimes despite falling in the same category?

Yes there are, people unlike Ants & Bees, have quite a few differences in behaviour.

 

However, for the purposes of actually holding a discussion & describing a method of Government in a way that Everyone can understand then the above one word descriptions are both correct & precise.

 

All of the Countries which I described as Fascist were, at one point in their history, Fascist.

 

Should you wish to continue our disagreement on this point then I suggest you come up with a ONE WORD description which we can all immediately recognize as a more accurate description of the method of Governing used during the period when I, & the rest of the World ,was under the impression that that particular country was in fact Fascist.

 

Actually, they really are. Oversimplification of complex issues is a dangerous thing.

[erebus]

Fascism is now very popular, as the countries rejoicing about it, like Greece, Italy and Cyprus realise.

 

If you think they are living in a democracy, well that was history. Why Greece first when all countries have busted banks??? Well Greece introduced the world to democracy, and as a symbolic gesture it was for the chop first. Might as well destroy the icon, so the rest of the people get the message, and learn to love giving the banks their money, thus making themselves destitute.

 

Fascism views political violence, war, and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation and asserts that "superior" nations and races should attain living space by displacing weak and inferior ones. So now you know why we want all the energy and mineral wealth in Libya, Mali and the rest of Africa, Iran, Iraq and the rest of the inferior countries. Also to stop those workaholic Chinese from making us look like post industrial idiots. They have to go through us to get their materials, and we want to make them pay, and pay, for being so dam clever. Also we have a better corporate war machine, which is our main manufacturing industry anyway.

 

So let us rejoice as we crush savers, pensioners, put millions out of work and class them as skiving trash, regardless of the fact there are no jobs, run down state run institutions like the NHS and why educate the poorer section of society, but keep the schools open to teach them to respect authority, or turf them into prison, also to be exclusively run by the corporate sector. If you ain't got a science or mathematics degree, , then you are obviously thick or just pretending to be clever, thus deserving of poor pay, crap temporary jobs, and poverty. That is unless you have money, went to a posh school, became a politician, which is about connections, and relying on advisors to write the scripts you do not fully understand, while preaching to even more educationally challenged INDIVIDUALS about us all being in it together. They will argue and thus prove the point on how thick they really are…..

 

We live in democracy where we vote for temporary fascists to rule, the choice is blue , yellow or red, they are all the same, but if you can see they appear different.

[Longcol]

Fascism is now very popular, as the countries rejoicing about it, like Greece, Italy and Cyprus realise.

 

</snip long boring and largely irrelevant diatribe>

 

A fascist dictatorship wouldn't allow a forum such as this to exist or you to express your views openly.

 

You fail.

[mjw47]

Actually, they really are. Oversimplification of complex issues is a dangerous thing.

 

Actually, they really are not.

Lemaquis & I were not discussing political philosophy, we were discussing semantics. He was attempting to argue that the use of the word Fascist was incorrect when applied to Franco's Spain, the Colonels Greece & Argentina's Junta.

He was making this claim because in an earlier post he had stated that there had only ever been two Fascist states in history.

 

My point is that it is perfectly correct to describe those countries at that time by using that one word. Despite various differences in the way they operated they all came under that description.

 

So you see, it really is quite simple.