LeMaquis Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 It seems to me that Fascism is a natural state for mankind. It certainly has been the predominant one since the beginning of time. Fascism a natural state for mankind? Predominant since the beginning of time? And your evidence is? Only two states have been fascist, Italy under Mussolini and Germany under Hitler. Billions of people have lived on the planet and fewer than a couple of hundred thousand of them have lived under fascism. Humans waited a few thousand years before moving towards the first fascist state. Both fascist states were overthrown despite massive levels of security and militarism and no state since has gone for third time lucky. Hardly a natural state for mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Britain. Incipient Fascist State. http://www.globalresearch.ca/britain-incipient-fascist-state/23055 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Thank you for this post! When we first came to Australia, I was dubious of the compulsory voting here. Having read many posts like yours, I now support compulsory voting. Maybe if Britons voted to adopt our single transferable vote, you might get more satisfaction. WE also have a vgote in an Upper House election, our Senate. While the Lower House constituencies, as you say, rarely change sides, the Senate vote is for 10 senators for each State (actually 5 at a time normally, as they sit for 2 terms and "overlap". It's possible for a minority party to hold the "balance of power" in the Senate, which encourages the not-Labour/not-Conservative electors to form a party for their beliefs. From what I understand the Australian method of voting does appear to make more sense & provide a fairer outcome. Is it true you have a 'non of the above' option? If so, & that option should gain most votes do the parties then have to submit new candidates? Coincidentally my eldest daughter returned from Australia yesterday having attended her cousins wedding in the Gold Coast area. Was there myself for three weeks about 10 years ago, great country! ---------- Post added 12-04-2013 at 15:40 ---------- Fascism a natural state for mankind? Predominant since the beginning of time? And your evidence is? Only two states have been fascist, Italy under Mussolini and Germany under Hitler. Billions of people have lived on the planet and fewer than a couple of hundred thousand of them have lived under fascism. Humans waited a few thousand years before moving towards the first fascist state. Both fascist states were overthrown despite massive levels of security and militarism and no state since has gone for third time lucky. Hardly a natural state for mankind. Only two States? what about Spain under Franco, Greece under the Colonels, Argentina under the Junta? Also Syria & Indonesia today are probably classed as Fascist States. Don't agree it's a natural state though. No doubt many politicians would like it to be. Not much opposition allowed in Fascist run countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillpig Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 The Roman Empire was certainly fascist, there was a senate but despite a few attempts to assert power the Emperoer was in complete charge. The Assyrians, Hittites, Egyptians, Byzantines, Persians Sassanids etc etc were all Fascisistic. My assertion that this is a "natural state" is surely supported by the fact that ancient China and the South American states were all very similar. Democracy as espoused in ancient Greece only applied to a minority, no women were allowed to vote equally slaves were barred. The history of the government of man is in nature, if not name, monarchical and fascist. Communism did not work, democracy is a positive step, but by no means permanently installed in the minds and hearts of men. ---------- Post added 12-04-2013 at 17:28 ---------- Sorry, but I omitted to answer the question that started this subject. My answer is that throughout the 20th Century Fascism was bad. In other times it has led to contentment, prosperity and peace. I do not advocate fascism but democracy is difficult and has far to go before it is universally accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 One thing with Fascism was that if the people weren't happy with their leaders they hung em upside down from lamposts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Only two States? what about Spain under Franco, Greece under the Colonels, Argentina under the Junta? Also Syria & Indonesia today are probably classed as Fascist States. Fascism is a very specific political ideology although national varieties differ as nations differ. The central tenet of fascism is a fascist vanguard party with a strong leader at the head of a totalitarian state - the Fuhrerprinzip. Spain, Greece and Argentina above were military dictatorships. Franco refused to take part in WW2. Syria has a new constitution from last year which allows multi-party elections. The actions of the government don't make it fascist. Indonesia also has elected government. Syria and Indonesia - like some dictatorships - may be authoritarian and brutal - but that is different to being fascist. Bloody Sunday didn't make Heath Europe's 3rd fascist dictator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hillpig. In historic terms you have a point in that Fascism is a natural progression from the early 'I've got a sword give me your stuff'. Of all the 'isms' Monarchism,Fascism,Communism,Capitalism I believe that Democratic Capitalism- preferable in a Republic- is the most workable system & most acceptable to free thinking people prepared to take responsibility for their own actions. Whist capitalism has faults they are fewer than the alternatives. The current economic woes have been brought about by Governments actually pandering to Capitalism's main weakness, Greed. The main inbuilt control on that greed was the fear of failure. Business people who borrowed to grow their companies were constrained by the personal consequences of failure. The Governments took it upon themselves in a fit of greed(more taxes)to deregulate the banks & allow Bank employees to fancy themselves as entrepreneurs gambling with other peoples money. These people were 'corporate' types who, under normal conditions would never risk their own capitol & hadn't the 'smarts' or the balls for the job. Suddenly however, they were all Gordon Gekko & all bets were on. Not satisfied with that error of judgement, the Governments then decided to throw petrol on the flames by interfering with market forces & bailing out the banks. We are now about to enter a third dip depression according to most commentators. These circumstances are ideal for Fascist ideologies to take hold. Lets hope that democracy holds firm because yes, Fascism is really that bad. ---------- Post added 12-04-2013 at 18:49 ---------- LeMaquis. It did to some. ---------- Post added 12-04-2013 at 18:55 ---------- Hillpig. that should have said Recession, but was probably a Freudian slip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillpig Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hillpig. In historic terms you have a point in that Fascism is a natural progression from the early 'I've got a sword give me your stuff'. Of all the 'isms' Monarchism,Fascism,Communism,Capitalism I believe that Democratic Capitalism- preferable in a Republic- is the most workable system & most acceptable to free thinking people prepared to take responsibility for their own actions. Whist capitalism has faults they are fewer than the alternatives. The current economic woes have been brought about by Governments actually pandering to Capitalism's main weakness, Greed. The main inbuilt control on that greed was the fear of failure. Business people who borrowed to grow their companies were constrained by the personal consequences of failure. The Governments took it upon themselves in a fit of greed(more taxes)to deregulate the banks & allow Bank employees to fancy themselves as entrepreneurs gambling with other peoples money. These people were 'corporate' types who, under normal conditions would never risk their own capitol & hadn't the 'smarts' or the balls for the job. Suddenly however, they were all Gordon Gekko & all bets were on. Not satisfied with that error of judgement, the Governments then decided to throw petrol on the flames by interfering with market forces & bailing out the banks. We are now about to enter a third dip depression according to most commentators. These circumstances are ideal for Fascist ideologies to take hold. Lets hope that democracy holds firm because yes, Fascism is really that bad. ---------- Post added 12-04-2013 at 18:49 ---------- LeMaquis. It did to some. ---------- Post added 12-04-2013 at 18:55 ---------- Hillpig. that should have said Recession, but was probably a Freudian slip I merely seek to answer the question asked, I am sure your comments are meant seriously but I do nor think the person asking the question intended to elicit such an analysis. You seem to feel that capitalism leads to Fascism. I disagree, The USA is the strongest example of capitalism, it have never been fascist. Virtually every other country has experienced Fascism including this one under monarchy and Cromwell. The USA has not therefore evidence seems to indicate that capitalism and democracy are compatible. ---------- Post added 12-04-2013 at 20:29 ---------- On reading your analysis again, I feel that we actually agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hillpig. No, I don't believe capitalism leads to Fascism. What I am worried about is that the breakdown of capitalism may provide an opportunity for Fascism to step in. Fascism tends to become popular when society is in turmoil. That's what happened in Germany in the 1930s, roaring inflation,resentment about the unreasonable terms placed on the country after the First War & dissatisfaction with the old order. The appearance of a strong leader to change all that obviously had it's appeal. We know how that ended. As for the OP I think it was a deliberately provocative daft question & they were 'having a laugh'. Still, produced a few amusing answers so all is well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Virtually every other country has experienced Fascism including this one under monarchy and Cromwell. You haven't got a clue what fascism is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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