Miliband not ready to be Prime Minister.

[I1L2T3]

I imagine that will be kids that turned into adults, and adults that were claiming incapacity benefits or unemployment benefits.

 

But if net migration had been zero or negative there would have been more of our youngsters and unemployed working.

 

But unemployment has hardly changed and is increasing again. Numbers of youngsters entering the job market would be offset by people retiring, leaving the job market.

 

If I'm honest to me the government figures look dodgy. Just like the figures from every government have looked dodgy for decades.

[MrSmith]

But unemployment has hardly changed and is increasing again. Numbers of youngsters entering the job market would be offset by people retiring, leaving the job market.

 

If I'm honest to me the government figures look dodgy. Just like the figures from every government have looked dodgy for decades.

 

That’s because the working age population is increasing faster than job creation.

 

You just posted the figures for net immigration, the 650,000 people are either working or claiming, either way it prevents our unemployment figures from falling by about 650,000.

[WeX]

Obviously if we invite immigration we need the immigrants to be productive. Taking Polish immigrants as an example they have low rates of unemployment and low rates of crime. They pay tax and work hard in the economy. The vast majority of them come here to work.

 

Did you know that if they leave and return to their country of origin they can claim back a large proportion of the tax they have paid to the HMRC.

[I1L2T3]

That’s because the working age population is increasing faster than job creation.

 

You just posted the figures for net immigration, the 650,000 people are either working or claiming, either way it prevents our unemployment figures from falling by about 650,000.

 

A lot of the migrants will have been students.

 

The numbers of over 65s is growing rapidly, far quicker than the numbers of young.

 

There is a big shortage of people leaving education and entering the workforce. The CIPD recently estimated over the next 10 years there will be 13.5m vacancies to fill and only 7m school leavers.

 

The population is aging and we are not adequately refreshing the workforce ourselves.

 

I don't think your arguments stack up. I've read them again and again and your only solution is population reduction. Shall we cull the old?

 

---------- Post added 21-04-2013 at 20:12 ----------

 

Did you know that if they leave and return to their country of origin they can claim back a large proportion of the tax they have paid to the HMRC.

 

What is a large proportion and what is the mechanism for claiming back the tax?

[MrSmith]

A lot of the migrants will have been students.

How can a student increase net migration, as one year group arrives one year group leaves, it works the same as schools, school would be full to overflowing if everyone just stayed.

 

The numbers of over 65s is growing rapidly, far quicker than the numbers of young.

What does that have to do with anything.

 

There is a big shortage of people leaving education and entering the workforce. The CIPD recently estimated over the next 10 years there will be 13.5m vacancies to fill and only 7m school leavers.

Yet we still have unemployed, when we don't then fill the vacancies with immigrants or better still employ the immigrants in their own country and let them have the benefits for a better live in their country.

 

 

The population is aging and we are not adequately refreshing the workforce ourselves.

Yet we still have unemployed, and unemployed people don't contribute to pensions. they are drain on tax money, much better to employ them instead of employing foreign labour, many immigrants also stay and become old, maybe have kids, this is a small island and it doesn’t have the resources to sustain the population that is already here, as other countries expand their own population they will need the recourses of their country for themselves so we won’t be able to buy the food and materials we need.

 

I don't think your arguments stack up. I've read them again and again and your only solution is population reduction. Shall we cull the old?

 

This is because you can't see the big picture, you see lots of individual problems and you appear incapable of linking them altogether.

You want cheap houses, but you want population expansion, you want a more sustainable future yet you want economic growth, they are contradictory, you can’t have your cake and eat it.

[I1L2T3]

How can a student increase net migration, as one year group arrives one year group leaves, it works the same as schools, school would be full to overflowing if everyone just stayed.

 

 

What does that have to do with anything.

 

 

Yet we still have unemployed, when we don't then fill the vacancies with immigrants or better still employ the immigrants in their own country and let them have the benefits for a better live in their country.

 

 

 

Yet we still have unemployed, and unemployed people don't contribute to pensions. they are drain on tax money, much better to employ them instead of employing foreign labour, many immigrants also stay and become old, maybe have kids, this is a small island and it doesn’t have the resources to sustain the population that is already here, as other countries expand their own population they will need the recourses of their country for themselves so we won’t be able to buy the food and materials we need.

 

 

 

This is because you can't see the big picture, you see lots of individual problems and you appear incapable of linking them altogether.

You want cheap houses, but you want population expansion, you want a more sustainable future yet you want economic growth, they are contradictory, you can’t have your cake and eat it.

 

I want sustainable growth.

 

So, shall we cull the old?

[MrSmith]

I want sustainable growth.

 

So, shall we cull the old?

 

Wouldn't a sustainable future be better even if that means no growth and why would you want to cull the old?

[I1L2T3]

Wouldn't a sustainable future be better even if that means no growth and why would you want to cull the old?

 

Negative growth might be desirable at some point. Right now we have debts to pay. We can't pay them if the economy shrinks. That is the unfortunate reality we are facing. So we need growth for a time, it needs to be modest and controlled to avoid boom.

 

I don't want to reduce the population. You do.

[MrSmith]

Negative growth might be desirable at some point. Right now we have debts to pay. We can't pay them if the economy shrinks. That is the unfortunate reality we are facing. So we need growth for a time, it needs to be modest and controlled to avoid boom.

 

I don't want to reduce the population. You do.

 

 

 

Of cause we can pay debts down with a shrinking economy, the government just need to spend less than it receives, that means more tax payers and fewer people spending taxes, a start would be to employ the unemployed, our youngsters and increase the pension age before employing foreign labour.

 

Increasing the debt and population won't get rid of the problem it will just make it worse and harder to sort out in the future.

 

---------- Post added 21-04-2013 at 20:52 ----------

 

I don't want to reduce the population. You do.

 

So why suggest culling the old?

[I1L2T3]

Of cause we can pay debts down with a shrinking economy, the government just need to spend less than it receives, that means more tax payers and fewer people spending taxes, a start would be to employ the unemployed, our youngsters and increase the pension age before employing foreign labour.

 

Increasing the debt and population won't get rid of the problem it will just make it worse and harder to sort out in the future.

 

---------- Post added 21-04-2013 at 20:52 ----------

 

 

So why suggest culling the old?

 

The reality is that natural population growth will cause our population to grow, even without immigration. It is going to happen and that needs to be addressed.

 

The danger of reducing spending too quickly is that it would cause the deficit to increase by sucking demand out of economy. We have had a taste of this already. Long-term I agree we need to get borrowing in check. Yes we need to increase the retirement age too.

 

I'm not suggesting culling the old. I'm asking you whether we should. I'm wondering how else you would make it happen.