Do schools mess people up?

[megalithic]

The Morris Minors at Dore?

 

Yes mate. New outdoor studio opening soon too out Ulley way.

[Rampent]

Yes mate. New outdoor studio opening soon too out Ulley way.

 

I'm off

[aliceBB]

A outdoor dance studio in this country sounds like a seriously bad idea.

[AF Removals]

You are correct. Education has done nothing much for you at all.

 

Nope thick as **** but I'm 23 & probably have done a lot more with myself than a lot of clever middle age men so I don't have a problem. If my boy could work with me at 12 think of the skills & cash hel have saved buy time he's 17. Not just some McDonald's employee who can't afford his first pickup

[megalithic]

A outdoor dance studio in this country sounds like a seriously bad idea.

 

Yeah pretty stupid idea really, thanks for pointing it out. All those round me are yes men so it's good to get an outside neutral opinion. Owe you a pint.

[Hammerstein]

It is far too big a question to answer in a thread like this.

 

The 'democratic school' concept is not new. Read A.S. Neill's 'Summerhill' (his account of his 1960s school with similar ideas, voluntary curriculum, children made the rules, etc). It succeeded in some respects, but failed, by and large in others. I do not think it would work with most children, who, given the choice, would not to study choose subjects they found hard (even though with a little perseverance they could achieve in them).

 

Yes it's through A.S Neill and John Holt that I became familiar with the idea. Summerhill is on it's way to being 100 years old in the next decade or so and is still running despite the whole OFSTED fiasco (who recently gave them a good rating), so I'm not sure by what criteria you could say it has 'failed'. I think the precise point is that they wouldn't study the subjects which they weren't suited to, other than basic literacy and numeracy.

 

Edit: As other people have said, it's possible to walk out of school with anything and still live a happy life. Where's the need for all the nonsense? I probably learned the most during my education when I left university and realised how daft it all was

 

Your pupil's essay : there was nothing to stop you heaping praise upon the girl for the content, whilst acknowledging its technical weaknesses.

 

My sense of decency towards another human being would stop me. Would you approach someone grieving at the loss of a family member and think it appropriate correct their grammar? The example I gave was merely that; an example of how even the most sensitive teachers can come to see the students in terms of the success criteria - which needless to say is bound to be extremely damaging for the children in question and their ability to express themselves. Much more of her expression getting treated like that and I very much doubt this girl would want to express much anymore.

[aliceBB]

Yes it's through A.S Neill and John Holt that I became familiar with the idea. Summerhill is on it's way to being 100 years old in the next decade or so and is still running despite the whole OFSTED fiasco (who recently gave them a good rating), so I'm not sure by what criteria you could say it has 'failed'.

Being given a 'good' rating by Ofsted is hardly a measure of genuine educational innovation and excellence. Quite the reverse, in fact...

 

I think the precise point is that they wouldn't study the subjects which they weren't suited to, other than basic literacy and numeracy.

But how do you know whether you're suited to a subject until you've studied it for some time?

 

Edit: As other people have said, it's possible to walk out of school with anything and still live a happy life. Where's the need for all the nonsense? I probably learned the most during my education when I left university and realised how daft it all was

You were fortunate to have had the chance to go to university and the luxury of choosing to reject what it offered you.

 

My sense of decency towards another human being would stop me. Would you approach someone grieving at the loss of a family member and think it appropriate correct their grammar?

Obviously not, but the context would be different.

 

The example I gave was merely that; an example of how even the most sensitive teachers can come to see the students in terms of the success criteria - which needless to say is bound to be extremely damaging for the children in question and their ability to express themselves. Much more of her expression getting treated like that and I very much doubt this girl would want to express much anymore.

I know what you mean, but there are ways and means to make such students feel valued. I taught English and would sometimes get such expressions of grief to 'mark', when grading them was clearly inappropriate. In those cases I simply gave feedback orally to the student and explained that I wasn't grading it and why.

[Rampent]

Being given a 'good' rating by Ofsted is hardly a measure of genuine educational innovation and excellence. Quite the reverse, in fact...

 

But how do you know whether you're suited to a subject until you've studied it for some time?

 

You were fortunate to have had the chance to go to university and the luxury of choosing to reject what it offered you.

 

Obviously not, but the context would be different.

 

I know what you mean, but there are ways and means to make such students feel valued. I taught English and would sometimes get such expressions of grief to 'mark', when grading them was clearly inappropriate. In those cases I simply gave feedback orally to the student and explained that I wasn't grading it and why.

 

Not big enough?

[Anna B]

Yes it's through A.S Neill and John Holt that I became familiar with the idea. Summerhill is on it's way to being 100 years old in the next decade or so and is still running despite the whole OFSTED fiasco (who recently gave them a good rating), so I'm not sure by what criteria you could say it has 'failed'. I think the precise point is that they wouldn't study the subjects which they weren't suited to, other than basic literacy and numeracy.

 

Edit: As other people have said, it's possible to walk out of school with anything and still live a happy life. Where's the need for all the nonsense? I probably learned the most during my education when I left university and realised how daft it all was

 

 

 

My sense of decency towards another human being would stop me. Would you approach someone grieving at the loss of a family member and think it appropriate correct their grammar? The example I gave was merely that; an example of how even the most sensitive teachers can come to see the students in terms of the success criteria - which needless to say is bound to be extremely damaging for the children in question and their ability to express themselves. Much more of her expression getting treated like that and I very much doubt this girl would want to express much anymore.

 

 

I saw a documentary about Summerhill, and some of the pupils came out knowing nothing. Fortunately for them they were all pretty well off so Daddy gave them a job in his business etc. Problem solved, but not so easy for ordinary mortals.

 

You have to be a pretty mature and motivated kind of kid to cope with the responsibility of what amounts to educating yourself. However that's not to say education shouldn't be flexible and enjoyable in the hands of a good teacher.

 

As for your point about the grieving child; well of course the message is the most important thing which requires a response. Writing is primarily about communication.

 

The idea in education these days is supposed to be about tailoring the learning to the needs of the individual child - a highly commendable aim, but very difficult to put into practice in a class of 30 different ability pupils.

 

If all the money that's been spent on messing around with the National Curriculum and the style of schools etc over the last 20 years had been put into reducing class sizes down to the 12 - 15ish number in private schools, then state schools might have had a chance of raising standards sufficiently to compete with them. But every successive government has dodged this elephant in the room and contented themselves with pottering round the edges, getting nowhere.

[aliceBB]

^^ agree absolutely

 

---------- Post added 22-04-2013 at 23:40 ----------

 

 

Not big enough?

 

I thought it might elicit this kind of ignorant smut! (Comes from teaching too many 14 year olds). Yawn.

 

Orally as opposed to written.