I1L2T3 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I see your point but there is two issues you have not looked at. 1 - Pensioners have contributed to a system on the express purpose of getting a pension out at the end. If they did not contribute enough, they get less. 2 - Out of work benefits do not require you to contribute, they are universal by nature and you can contribute diddly squat and still take out the same as a person who has paid in all their life. Everybody contributes to NI with expectation they will get something should they need it. That might be out of work benefits, or it might be a pension. No, out of work benefits are not universal. To get JSA there is a basic set of qualification criteria. Then it may be either income based or contribution based depending on you NI contributions in the previous two complete tax years. For income based you must prove you have savings less than 16k. There are also rules around how you left your last job - if you went voluntarily or got sacked you may not be able to claim for a time. Then there is ESA. Then we have UC coming along with a whole stack of new rules and conditionality criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orbs Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Wait until January then everybody and their fathers will get the same as a pensioner without paying a penny in, and the big houses people are having to leave because of the bedroom tax will soon go to the foreigners. i get married womans pension my oh basic, bus pass and winterfuel, this year should get free tv licence we have to be careful with our savings, yet the our pensioner neighbour has never worked in the 40 years i'v known him is well off, living on income support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Regardless of how much you've paid into your private pension, when it matures, there is no guarantee that the sum you've been promised will be the sum you'll receive. Again it all depends on the performance of stocks & shares, as many have recently discovered. ---------- Post added 29-04-2013 at 16:28 ---------- Doesn't the average civil servant get far more than that? AcCording to PCS: Excluding the very highest earners, the average civil service pension is £4,200 a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Everybody contributes to NI with expectation they will get something should they need it. That might be out of work benefits, or it might be a pension. No, out of work benefits are not universal. To get JSA there is a basic set of qualification criteria. Then it may be either income based or contribution based depending on you NI contributions in the previous two complete tax years. For income based you must prove you have savings less than 16k. There are also rules around how you left your last job - if you went voluntarily or got sacked you may not be able to claim for a time. Then there is ESA. Then we have UC coming along with a whole stack of new rules and conditionality criteria. I meant that JSA is universal in the sense everyone can claim it as long as they fulfil certain criteria. But I think you have answered my other point about the difference between a state pension and other benefits. The pension is a constant, its there for all and this is why some see it was their right. I personally think it is dangerous to see the state pension as something you only get if you need it. Its the base we work from and the somewhat dim light at the end of the tunnel for people in work. No one should really take away something someone has worked towards for 30+ years just because things have changed decades after they started paying in. I think Im changing my mind here, because i think the state pension should be the right of everyone, no matter how much money you have. Its down to the morals of the person receiving it if they wish to give it up, but they should do so through philanthropic giving, not by giving it back to the government. ---------- Post added 30-04-2013 at 20:45 ---------- AcCording to PCS: Excluding the very highest earners, the average civil service pension is £4,200 a year. do you have a link to this figures publication? The BBC has a higher figure of £5600pa http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15925017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I meant that JSA is universal in the sense everyone can claim it as long as they fulfil certain criteria. But I think you have answered my other point about the difference between a state pension and other benefits. The pension is a constant, its there for all and this is why some see it was their right. I personally think it is dangerous to see the state pension as something you only get if you need it. Its the base we work from and the somewhat dim light at the end of the tunnel for people in work. No one should really take away something someone has worked towards for 30+ years just because things have changed decades after they started paying in. I think Im changing my mind here, because i think the state pension should be the right of everyone, no matter how much money you have. Its down to the morals of the person receiving it if they wish to give it up, but they should do so through philanthropic giving, not by giving it back to the government. ---------- Post added 30-04-2013 at 20:45 ---------- do you have a link to this figures publication? The BBC has a higher figure of £5600pa http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15925017 My view is the same pretty much. We shouldn't take the pension away. Remember that you need to pay NI in enough full tax years to qualify for the full state pension. My mum was conned by her employer all through the 70s - he docked full NI from her wages but only paid the reduced rate to the inland revenue. He creamed the rest off and kept it. This only came to light a few years ago when she claimed her pension and she didn't have enough full contributory years for the full pension. Her ex-employer was long dead by then. It's not the universal entitlement you think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 People who work away from home (as the MP's do) can usually claim expenses..no matter what they earn...I don't think it should be any different for MP's....your turn... Lessening expense allowances is one of the latest ways of reducing wages. An aquaintance is an electrician working away from home on contract jobs around the country. He no longer gets living out allowance and is expected to pay for hotels himself or commute. He has recently spent 3 months in Hull, commuting every day. No petrol allowance either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 The DWP has been all together for years. I can't remember how long, but it was a good idea (not sure whose idea but Labour brought it in I think). What's the point in having them separate? This is off the scale for you. You managed to start with one faulty argument - pensioners are now scroungers, then bring in a compulsory euthanasia part too. Even by your standards that is poor. I think you're learning off ricgem Even Mecky's at it in this one with the last post before mine. you mention me and 2 others here (i bet theres more) but unlike you we dont stand for the egg under the hat trick :hihi:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Stn Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 We dont feel that OAP's should be able to travel on the "Train" in areas that are controled by passenger transport executive's for free. E.g an OAP can travel from Sheffield Midland to Huddersfield or Leeds for free ( after 0930 am Monday - Friday and all day Sat/Sun ) We think they should pay the same as a under 16 has to pay which is 70p single ticket. Your views please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadManMoon Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 At what level are pensioners wealthy? If you have contributed throughout your working life why not take what you are entitled to? Idiot Duncan Smith baldly going where no Tory nutter has gone before! Well, I thought it was funny,:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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