Does God Exist?

[Cavegirl]

"Just for the sake of an interesting discussion I'd like to raise a point. I wonder whether our long history of religious belief doesn't actually inform science. I'm not sure yet whether a belief in the spirit world, from the most ancient times, hasn't been the most significant aspect of our development that has led to our ability to use abstract thinking."

 

That to me, reads as "I have a hunch that our ability to use abstract thinking is a result of spiritual beliefs"

 

There is still nothing other than a hunch to back it up.

 

Feel free to suggest an alternative.

 

I didn't make a claim that it had I just said it was something that I was considering.

[Cavegirl]

I was thinking more of this...

 

"As bad as I think propaganda, power, subjugation and control can be in society I do still appreciate that social unification, morality and abstract thinking are some of the beneficial side effects we've had from a belief in the spirit world."

 

I can't for the life of me see how morality and social unification are part of religion......they all appear to be lacking in both...

 

I see, I think I may have confused the issue due to the time scales involved. I was suggesting that for hunter gatherers it was a unifying aspect of social life because they have/ had an egalitarian society ie equal access to the spirit world. Later, once states developed that principle of unification was gradually diminished by increasing hierarchical structures in both the earthly world and the spirit world (as defined by the religious elites).

 

I don't think that morality is particularly lacking in religion, 10 commandments and all, but it is immoral in general to subjugate a people through religion so perhaps it depends on the angle you take.

[flamingjimmy]

Feel free to suggest an alternative.

Why should I?

 

If you tell me that there are pink elephants behind me is the only way to disprove that by proving that there a blue elephants behind me? I think not.

 

 

I didn't make a claim that it had I just said it was something that I was considering.

Well in that case your wording threw me off.

 

Here's what you said

"As bad as I think propaganda, power, subjugation and control can be in society I do still appreciate that social unification, morality and abstract thinking are some of the beneficial side effects we've had from a belief in the spirit world."

 

The phrase 'I do still appreciate' followed by your unsubstantiated assertion to me reads as sort of saying "The following is a fact that I appreciate". You gave no indication that it was just an opinion, You didn't say "I think that X, and Y are because of Z" Or "might be because of Z" you straight up said "X and Y are the result of Z".

 

To be honest, I'd be surprised if you could even show a significant correlation let alone causation.

[Cavegirl]

Why should I?

 

If you tell me that there are pink elephants behind me is the only way to disprove that by proving that there a blue elephants behind me? I think not.

 

You don't think it's important to discuss ideas regarding why humans have developed abstract thinking processes?

 

Archaeology, I admit, is not an exact science in this regard but it doesn't mean that discussion or ideas around the subject are valueless.

 

Well in that case your wording threw me off.

 

Here's what you said

"As bad as I think propaganda, power, subjugation and control can be in society I do still appreciate that social unification, morality and abstract thinking are some of the beneficial side effects we've had from a belief in the spirit world."

 

The phrase 'I do still appreciate' followed by your unsubstantiated assertion to me reads as sort of saying "The following is a fact that I appreciate". You gave no indication that it was just an opinion, You didn't say "I think that X, and Y are because of Z" Or "might be because of Z" you straight up said "X and Y are the result of Z".

 

To be honest, I'd be surprised if you could even show a significant correlation let alone causation.

 

There has to have been some purpose for the development of ritualised shamanistic behaviour in prehistoric peoples. We can't speak to them directly so we have to make informed judgements based upon the best knowledge we have available or we'd have to say we understand barely anything except what we ourselves have experienced directly.

 

It's not an exact science, it's qualititative rather than quantitative, but that doesn't mean it's valueless far from it. Based upon my knowledge and experience and with no means of proving it either way I can say I appreciate something if I feel like it. It means I understand the value of it rather than I believe it.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Cavegirl

[Karis]

You've got to beware of those pink elephants, FJ. They hide in cherry blossoms you know...

 

And their stealth poops are horrific!

[USUK]

You've got to beware of those pink elephants, FJ. They hide in cherry blossoms you know...

 

And their stealth poops are horrific!

 

We use lots of that Elephant powder here on the Pacific coast. It keeps em out of the back yard.

[Karis]

He he he! GROSS!

[sandie]

I believe in God but I don't know where he is half the time. The sort of country we've become - if you're attacked on the street and you phone for help they snatch the phone out your hand. Where there's no jobs for our young people because of immigration and because people live too long. I can't see God half the time; the sort of country Britain has become. He has betrayed us!

 

I dont think we had mobiles in the early days.

[harvey19]

If non beleivers are so sure there is no God has anyone objected to taking holidays at Christmas and Easter ?

[Number Six]

If non beleivers are so sure there is no God has anyone objected to taking holidays at Christmas and Easter ?

 

What has having time off from work got to do with God?