Does God Exist?

[Anna B]

10 hours ago, staninoodle said:

If you put your trust in a god,do you have faith in humanity.Humanity can lift itself above a god,where a god failed in such as Belsen and Aushwitz,humanity triumphed by liberating  those that would have surely perished,and that wasnt an act of god,it was an act of humanity,where was god for all the believers of aushwitz,he didnt save their souls they were burned,many while alive,and those not burned alive,had thier organs taken away but where still awake,conscious.Where was their god,or that of the innocent burned alive as witches.........theres no god.

This is a planet,of many planets that will support life in many forms throughout a VAST universe and beyond and in demensions human eyes cant see and never will,we are,as ants are,one of many wonders,across an undiscovered spectrum,we will never discover.

Why would you think that faith in humanity is not compatible with a faith in God? You can have faith in both.

 

I agree it was humanity that rescued the people in the German camps, but it was also humanity that created the camps in the first place, and visited the most appalling evils upon the people incarcerated there.

It was a belief in God that sustained many of them while they were imprisoned, in the face of the most appalling testing of faith, (they have testified to that fact,) and God that freed them in death and took them to a better, more glorious and incorruptable place.

 

I see you believe in extraterrestrial life on other planets in the Universe, (as do I,) but there is no proof of that is there? Only supposition and belief.

I don't know which is the most awesome; to think the Universe is full of life, some of it such as us, or that we are all alone in a cold dark void.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Anna B

[Annie Bynnol]

At the  beginning of every season I 'believe' my team is going to get promotion. That 'belief' stems from childhood when anything was possible if I "believed" hard enough. I have very little 'faith' that they will. I have 'faith' in the players and the manager for a while and even 'hope' for awhile.

I , like many 'believed' in February that Liverpool would be Premier League Champions in May(Grrr...).

 

Last week I lost a £5 bet because I had a 'belief' that Brechin was a City.

Last month I had 'faith' that 'supercede' was the correct spelling, cost me £2.

Once upon a time I 'hoped' that Margaret Thatcher wouldn't be that bad. She cost me my job-twice.

 

These words are never used in law, medicine, science, mathematics etc. as they have no value or probability.  They are however by magicians, politicians and those who would seek to tell us and lead us to a better life.

 

It wasn't 'humanity' that built the camps , or organised the trains it was"faith" in an ideology which pedalled "hope" in the "belief" of a promise of a better life.

 

 

 

[Anna B]

3 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

At the  beginning of every season I 'believe' my team is going to get promotion. That 'belief' stems from childhood when anything was possible if I "believed" hard enough. I have very little 'faith' that they will. I have 'faith' in the players and the manager for a while and even 'hope' for awhile.

I , like many 'believed' in February that Liverpool would be Premier League Champions in May(Grrr...).

 

Last week I lost a £5 bet because I had a 'belief' that Brechin was a City.

Last month I had 'faith' that 'supercede' was the correct spelling, cost me £2.

Once upon a time I 'hoped' that Margaret Thatcher wouldn't be that bad. She cost me my job-twice.

 

These words are never used in law, medicine, science, mathematics etc. as they have no value or probability.  They are however by magicians, politicians and those who would seek to tell us and lead us to a better life.

 

It wasn't 'humanity' that built the camps , or organised the trains it was"faith" in an ideology which pedalled "hope" in the "belief" of a promise of a better life.

 

 

 

Actually, they are used, all the time, in the disciplines you mention.

'Probability' is actually a branch of mathematics, and frequently informs science. Much science is based only on theory rather than fact, maybe you've heard of theoretical physics? And scientists don't always get it right either, theories are changing all the time, and being replaced wholesale when a new theory comes along. I'm in no way disparaging what they do, I am a great admirer, but it may surprise you to know that a number of highly respected scientists have professed a belief in God. 

 

I don't quite follow your last sentence. The death camps were most decidedly built by humanity, all be it just a small section of them, and the harm they did was out of all proportion to their number. God had nothing to do with it, it was racist genocide, and it was evil. Most evils in this world are the result of man's inhumanity to man, so why would God interfere? If Men caused it, let them sort it out. 'Freedom of will' remember.

 

As for your 'beliefs' and bets, there must have been a tiny part of you that believed in the possibility of a win, otherwise why bet? That's all I'm saying, - I believe we should be open to the possibility of a God, or a force that is so far unknown but far bigger than ourselves. 

 

Better luck with the gambling next time. 😉

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Anna B

[Albert the Cat]

To answer the question, no.

 

I don't need to believe in God to live a moral life as the vast majority of religious people tend to.  I don't need the fear of God to choose my actions based on right and wrong.  I make my choices completely of my own free will.  So who is the better person me or some religious person who needs to be “guided” by some imaginative entity?

[Anna B]

48 minutes ago, Albert the Cat said:

To answer the question, no.

 

I don't need to believe in God to live a moral life as the vast majority of religious people tend to.  I don't need the fear of God to choose my actions based on right and wrong.  I make my choices completely of my own free will.  So who is the better person me or some religious person who needs to be “guided” by some imaginative entity?

People can be either good or bad or a mixture of both. I don't think it depends on religious beliefs, but I do think quite a lot depends on conscience, and an inner sense of right and wrong. Where does that come from?

[Annie Bynnol]

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

Actually, they are used, all the time, in the disciplines you mention.

'Probability' is actually a branch of mathematics, and frequently informs science. Much science is based only on theory rather than fact, maybe you've heard of theoretical physics? And scientists don't always get it right either, theories are changing all the time, and being replaced wholesale when a new theory comes along. I'm in no way disparaging what they do, I am a great admirer, but it may surprise you to know that a number of highly respected scientists have professed a belief in God. 

 

I don't quite follow your last sentence. The death camps were most decidedly built by humanity, all be it just a small section of them, and the harm they did was out of all proportion to their number. God had nothing to do with it, it was racist genocide, and it was evil. Most evils in this world are the result of man's inhumanity to man, so why would God interfere? If Men caused it, let them sort it out. 'Freedom of will' remember.

 

As for your 'beliefs' and bets, there must have been a tiny part of you that believed in the possibility of a win, otherwise why bet? That's all I'm saying, - I believe we should be open to the possibility of a God, or a force that is so far unknown but far bigger than ourselves. 

 

Better luck with the gambling next time. 😉

 

 

 

In the  context of describing and explaining  our surroundings, "Belief" and "Faith" do nothing to describe or explain anything. They belong to a time when people were bullied into accepting what they were told.

 

New theories

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

And scientists don't always get it right either, theories are changing all the time, and being replaced wholesale when a new theory comes along. I'm in no way disparaging what they do, I am a great admirer, but it may surprise you to know that a number of highly respected scientists have professed a belief in God.  

Welcome to how science  works, unlike religion, new observations are the driving force behind understanding .

Perhaps you should share your sources with Richard Dawkins who could only find one Christian in several hundred Nobel Prize winners in the sciences

I find it odd that you refer to "scientists" as "them",  what sets them apart, what defines a "them"? 

 

 

[Anna B]

5 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

The answer to most questions of that kind is either "We don't know (yet)" or "There is no answer to that question because it is a meaningless question".

 

The best entry point for the latter point of view is still Language, Truth and Logic, which I recommend to you.  Don't be daunted, it's a much easier read than most philosophy books.

 

[Incidentally, you know you're a philosophy geek if your first thought on seeing Nigella Lawson is "That's A.J. Ayer's stepdaughter".]

I don't think they're meaningless questions. They are the sort of questions that drive us on. 

[Anna B]

On 18/04/2020 at 20:55, CaptainSwing said:

Why would a benevolent God not interfere?  Why would He give us free will knowing that it would lead to Auschwitz?

 

Given the choice between Auschwitz and not having free will, I'd choose option 2.

If we don't have free will we become more robot than human. I'd say it was one of the defining characteristics of being human, to be able to make our own choices, ultimately between good and bad. But having  been given that freedom to make our own choices we have no right to expect God, benevolent or otherwise, to bale us out when we screw up.  

 

Sadly Auschwitz in not an exception, there have been plenty of other examples of man's inhumanity to man, both large and small, but also many exceptional and wonderful examples of bravery, altruism, kindness and love. We just have to decide which side we're on.

[Guest makapaka]

25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

If we don't have free will we become more robot than human. I'd say it was one of the defining characteristics of being human, to be able to make our own choices, ultimately between good and bad. But having  been given that freedom to make our own choices we have no right to expect God, benevolent or otherwise, to bale us out when we screw up.  

 

Sadly Auschwitz in not an exception, there have been plenty of other examples of man's inhumanity to man, both large and small, but also many exceptional and wonderful examples of bravery, altruism, kindness and love. We just have to decide which side we're on.

Maybe we are just capable of that as a species.

 

why would a god say - im in charge - but do what you want?

 

i don’t know the answer - and id never run down anyone who believes in god because sometimes when I’ve been in a bad way I still say “help me out god” so I suppose something inside me hopes there’s someone who can do something is listening. 

I suppose everyone wants to know there’s something - because it’s impossible to explain otherwise - maybe we’re just lucky.

 

maybe we’re just a conscious being in a big wave of weirdness thats going on and have somehow managed to think about it a bit but never understand it and maybe in millions of years someone else or some other species will.

 

it would be really weird if in the small

amount of time we have been on the planet we’d all found a different god that was the true god.

[Annie Bynnol]

11 hours ago, Anna B said:

I don't think they're meaningless questions. They are the sort of questions that drive us on. 

Religion and philosophy have answered those questions over and over again and in many ways and with certainty.

There are many  churches, chapels, websites, TV and Radio channels etc. that can give you the truth.

 

If you are not happy with the answers provided you could look elsewhere for alternatives and there are plenty with loads of views.

 

You might find one that is based on a accumulation of observations and explanations over many thousands of years  which fit  in with other many other sets of observations and explanations to create a picture of what is known.

If an explanation doesn't fit in with the rest then it must be investigated and resolved and it may be that other explanations have to change.

The picture becomes clearer, brighter and deeper and indicates where to look next and the need for "faith" and "belief" will continue to recede.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Annie Bynnol