The line between discriminating and looking after your business

[El Cid]

 

Just so you know, this is just a hypothetical situation, purely for discussion/debate. There is no vacant position and there are no candidates.

 

As long as you dont tell anyone, its probably ok. Its daft that even Government cant make laws without it being illegal because they havnt concidered someones rights.

The Government are the people in charge of the country, democratically elected, how can someone else tell them what to do?

[rollwithit]

Like with any recruiting employer. The decisions made behind closed doors will never be heard by the outside world. Where I work (sorry can't disclose) nepatisum is rife. Everyones, siblings seem to get the jobs.

[Waldo]

Is there a line between discriminating against a potential employee and looking after your business?

 

Example, a vacant position comes up which requires the candidate to make sound decisions based on logic and evidence and I'm holding interviews.

If it comes up during the interview that the candidate holds strong illogical beliefs (ie extreme religious beliefs or some ridiculous conspiracy theory belief), would it be discriminating to cross them off my list based on these beliefs or would I be within my rights to do so?

 

Hi Roots,

 

I would thing you just need to consider their capacity for making logical evidence based decisions. Just because they also engage in non-logical mental activity, doesn't necessarily follow that their capacity for logic is diminished.

 

OTOH, if you feel their capacity for logic based decision making is diminished, then of course they don't get the job, but it's solely on the basis of some other person having a better capacity for logical thought.

 

That's how I would see it at least.

[janie48]

Is there a line between discriminating against a potential employee and looking after your business?

 

Example, a vacant position comes up which requires the candidate to make sound decisions based on logic and evidence and I'm holding interviews.

If it comes up during the interview that the candidate holds strong illogical beliefs (ie extreme religious beliefs or some ridiculous conspiracy theory belief), would it be discriminating to cross them off my list based on these beliefs or would I be within my rights to do so?

What specific job skills would require you to enquire about an applicants religious beliefs?

[RootsBooster]

Hi Roots,

 

I would thing you just need to consider their capacity for making logical evidence based decisions. Just because they also engage in non-logical mental activity, doesn't necessarily follow that their capacity for logic is diminished.

 

OTOH, if you feel their capacity for logic based decision making is diminished, then of course they don't get the job, but it's solely on the basis of some other person having a better capacity for logical thought.

 

That's how I would see it at least.

I'm thinking more in terms of the legalities, would an employer be within their rights to reject somebody for the reasons stated?

 

What specific job skills would require you to enquire about an applicants religious beliefs?

I didn't say anything about enquiring about their religious beliefs. See post#17 for an example

 

---------- Post added 04-05-2013 at 07:51 ----------

 

If you're using extremes are you really talking about someone's mental health rather than rational/conventional beliefs?

 

That's another thread on it's own! The line between extreme illogical/irrational beliefs and mental health issues

[Scozzie]

I think you owe it to your other staff to take them into consideration.

Would this potential newbie get along with the team?

Would someone with extreme views scare or enrich the current staff?

Would the current staff feel the need to leave to get away from a whack-job?

 

If you are going to upset/lose staff, then you don't need to hire them.

[aliceBB]

There's more than a whiff or arrogance in assuming that we can identify what is irrationality in the first place and even more so, that we can know how a person's religious or other beliefs will affect their judgment in a position of employment.

 

The ability of of High Courts judges, police commissioners and and consultant surgeons (to name but a few) to succeed in their work are predicated on their ability to make clear-sighted, evidence-based judgments, but many of them also hold strong religious views without that affecting their powers of logic in their day to day work.

 

And how/where/when exactly do you draw the line between religious conviction and religious nuttiness?

[RootsBooster]

There's more than a whiff or arrogance in assuming that we can identify what is irrationality in the first place

Is there?

I think it's pretty easy to identify what is rational and what is not, which is besides the point, I'm talking about extremes in this thread, not simply irrationality

and even more so, that we can know how a person's religious or other beliefs will affect their judgment in a position of employment.

We can't know, no employer can know if any candidate will be able to do the job correctly, they have to make a judgement and decide based on the information given to them by the candidate

 

The ability of of High Courts judges, police commissioners and and consultant surgeons (to name but a few) to succeed in their work are predicated on their ability to make clear-sighted, evidence-based judgments, but many of them also hold strong religious views without that affecting their powers of logic in their day to day work.

Do any of them hold extreme irrational beliefs?

They may hold the job position, but are they doing it right? How did they get the job in the first place?

Etc.

 

And how/where/when exactly do you draw the line between religious conviction and religious nuttiness?

Indeed.

Don't forget I'm not just talking about religious beliefs though

[Waldo]

I don't know the strict legalities Roots (IANAL). I would imagine though, that you are allowed to reject someone because they do not meet the standards you require for a particular role (in this case, proficiency in logical reasoned thought).

 

For example, say I am looking to employ a person to do X, and X requires that a person be strong fit and able; and a physically disabled person applies for the job, then yes, I can reject them because they are not up to the task. Note, I am not rejecting them because they are disabled, but because they cannot adequately perform in the role.

 

Now, I have another opening for someone doing admin work, the same disabled person applies for the job, they perform well and are the best applicant for the role (i.e. best meet the role requirements etc), but then I don't give them the job because I have some chip on my shoulder or whatever, I think that would be discrimination and probably illegal.

 

That again is just my feeling on the matter, and you may want to seek proper legal advice on the matter.

 

---------- Post added 04-05-2013 at 11:08 ----------

 

There's more than a whiff or arrogance in assuming that we can identify what is irrationality in the first place and even more so, that we can know how a person's religious or other beliefs will affect their judgment in a position of employment.

 

The ability of of High Courts judges, police commissioners and and consultant surgeons (to name but a few) to succeed in their work are predicated on their ability to make clear-sighted, evidence-based judgments, but many of them also hold strong religious views without that affecting their powers of logic in their day to day work.

 

And how/where/when exactly do you draw the line between religious conviction and religious nuttiness?

 

Agree.

 

It doesn't follow that just because you have religious convictions that your ability at logical reasoned thought is in anyway impaired. Unless the OP has evidence to suggest that it is?

 

Personally, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive at all. It could be that these two very different functions of the mind/brain (namely, logical thought, and, religious/spiritual/intuitive capacity) actually compliment one another. Make one a more rounded and fuller person.

[RootsBooster]

I don't know the strict legalities Roots (IANAL). I would imagine though, that you are allowed to reject someone because they do not meet the standards you require for a particular role (in this case, proficiency in logical reasoned thought).

 

For example, say I am looking to employ a person to do X, and X requires that a person be strong fit and able; and a physically disabled person applies for the job, then yes, I can reject them because they are not up to the task. Note, I am not rejecting them because they are disabled, but because they cannot adequately perform in the role.

 

Now, I have another opening for someone doing admin work, the same disabled person applies for the job, they perform well and are the best applicant for the role (i.e. best meet the role requirements etc), but then I don't give them the job because I have some chip on my shoulder or whatever, I think that would be discrimination and probably illegal.

 

That again is just my feeling on the matter, and you may want to seek proper legal advice on the matter.

Thanks, but I won't be needing any legal advice, it's just a hypothetical situation. There's no job vacancy and no candidates.

Agree.

 

It doesn't follow that just because you have religious convictions that your ability at logical reasoned thought is in anyway impaired. Unless the OP has evidence to suggest that it is?

 

Personally, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive at all. It could be that these two very different functions of the mind/brain (namely, logical thought, and, religious/spiritual/intuitive capacity) actually compliment one another. Make one a more rounded and fuller person.

Again, I'm not talking simply talking about religious convictions, I'm talking about extremes that indicate they may not be suitable for the position.