Why is UKIP called racist by some?

[boyfriday]

Its been the go to response for many of the pro immigration, liberals for years. They fail to mention the actual numbers of people who came before the modern increases in immigration started. I don't have them to hand as they where published some time ago by some university. The growth is pretty much exponential between pre-history and the start of the 20th century.

But that isn't really what we were talking about, I was addressing the issues of integration and assimilation.

Those who have only just arrived are finding their feet and no one would begrudge them this luxury, its more those who came here many years ago, have had children and grandchildren here but still have no interest in British culture.

But I don't know who they are! I was in the asian grocers, Shahs at the weekend. Old man Shah's been there since I lived in Nether Edge in the early 80's. He still wears traditional dress and talks with a thick accent but you can have a really good conversation with him about anything involving British culture and especially how his own kids have integrated into it and they all have Yorkshire accents..if you didn't take the time to know him, it's easy to make the assumption that he's one of those who doesn't integrate or have an appreciation of British culture.

I believe its this insular mentality of some ethnic groups that causes dissatisfaction by the younger generations who are torn between being British and their parents unwillingness to integrate.

I think that answer is only partly right Wex, particularly in Asian/British culture. When Asians first came here they wouldn't say boo to a goose..do you remember **** bashing in the 70's..you rarely saw any retaliation on their part-they were picked on because they were an easy and submissive target.

 

Second and third generation offspring don't have that obsequious nature, and struggle with their identity (similar was seen in 2nd generation Jamaican youth), so some shed off the indigenous culture and embrace their own and often become destructive..believe me in 20 years, they'll be fine just like the middle aged men who used to be football hooligans grow up and look forward to bouncing their grandchildren on their knees.

[WeX]

I think that answer is only partly right Wex, particularly in Asian/British culture. When Asians first came here they wouldn't say boo to a goose..do you remember **** bashing in the 70's..you rarely saw any retaliation on their part-they were picked on because they were an easy and submissive target.

 

Second and third generation offspring don't have that obsequious nature, and struggle with their identity (similar was seen in 2nd generation Jamaican youth), so some shed off the indigenous culture and embrace their own and often become destructive..believe me in 20 years, they'll be fine just like the middle aged men who used to be football hooligans grow up and look forward to bouncing their grandchildren on their knees.

 

Im too young to remember the **** bashing of the 70's but how many people actually where attacked. You use examples like this but then question others for exaggerating other issues.

 

I think your look at the second and third generations is the wrong way round. Those who came in the 70's etc had an identity, a culture and a history to look back on. They had the connection to their roots. Its the modern day generations that do not have this connection.

[tinfoilhat]

But that isn't really what we were talking about, I was addressing the issues of integration and assimilation.

But I don't know who they are! I was in the asian grocers, Shahs at the weekend. Old man Shah's been there since I lived in Nether Edge in the early 80's. He still wears traditional dress and talks with a thick accent but you can have a really good conversation with him about anything involving British culture and especially how his own kids have integrated into it and they all have Yorkshire accents..if you didn't take the time to know him, it's easy to make the assumption that he's one of those who doesn't integrate or have an appreciation of British culture.

.

 

Actually I think your man shah is the poster boy of immigrants. Arrives on these shores, opens a shop, works hard and intigrates his kids and speaks the language. Accent? Who cares. I can't for the life of me wonder why anyone would object.

 

Tilt it slightly though where he doesn't speak the language and doesn't intigrate his kids and the shop is set out with little or no signs in English and that is a different kettle of fish altogether.

[Mister M]

Its a very good and open article.

 

For those who are yet to read it, here is its title: My immigrant family were proud to assimilate. I despair that too many today expect Britain to adopt THEIR culture

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320940/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-Too-immigrants-today-expect-Britain-adopt-THEIR-culture.html#ixzz2ShddQqoK

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

I disagree Wex. I take most if not all things written by Melanie Philips with a pinch of salt.

She has got an agenda to push and an axe to grind, and it's usually on the backs of Muslims, the 'politically correct brigade', or anyone else who dares disagree with her. She's a Richard Littlejohn figure, there to provoke argument, a professional troll if you like. But as someone to encapsualte life in 21st Century Britain. No never.

 

Just look at her role in the MMR debate, and the huge damage she and her paper caused there.

[WeX]

I disagree Wex. I take most if not all things written by Melanie Philips with a pinch of salt.

She has got an agenda to push and an axe to grind, and it's usually on the backs of Muslims, the 'politically correct brigade', or anyone else who dares disagree with her. She's a Richard Littlejohn figure, there to provoke argument, a professional troll if you like. But as someone to encapsualte life in 21st Century Britain. No never.

 

Just look at her role in the MMR debate, and the huge damage she and her paper caused there.

 

Does her opinion on one thing mean she is wrong everywhere else? If so the inverse must be true. Where do you stand on Hitler's hatred for fox hunting by example?

[Mister M]

Does her opinion on one thing mean she is wrong everywhere else? If so the inverse must be true. Where do you stand on Hitler's hatred for fox hunting by example?

 

No it doesn't, but she has form on this area. Becoming vituperative before the launch of her book. Check out her articlesd before the publication of Londonistan.

And wait for it, she's even launching new 'brand Melanie' in America. Complete with T Shirts, baseball hats and stationery. Wonder if the t shirts come readily foam flecked....?

The former Tory Party chairman Lady Warsi had it right when she called her 'Mad Mel'.

[boyfriday]

Im too young to remember the **** bashing of the 70's but how many people actually where attacked. You use examples like this but then question others for exaggerating other issues.

Well it was something I lived through and was commonplace during the 70's. I was once in an Indian restaurant when a group of bevvy up'd blokes came in and thought it was perfectly reasonable to start abusing the staff and turning the tables over..if you didn't live through the days of the National Front then it's probably best not to speculate on the veracity of my claims.

I think your look at the second and third generations is the wrong way round. Those who came in the 70's etc had an identity, a culture and a history to look back on. They had the connection to their roots. Its the modern day generations that do not have this connection.

That was precisely the point I was making.

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2013 at 14:11 ----------

 

Actually I think your man shah is the poster boy of immigrants. Arrives on these shores, opens a shop, works hard and intigrates his kids and speaks the language. Accent? Who cares. I can't for the life of me wonder why anyone would object.

But he's entirely indicative of immigrants to these shores of his generation.

Tilt it slightly though where he doesn't speak the language and doesn't intigrate his kids and the shop is set out with little or no signs in English and that is a different kettle of fish altogether.

I agree, but I've yet to see such shops being commonplace. The merchant personality wouldn't allow them to restrict their potential market by not speaking the language or encouraging native speakers to spend their money in their shops and restaurants.

 

The kids need to be savvy and integrated too..they have to take their turn on the till as well

[mikem8634]

Well it was something I lived through and was commonplace during the 70's. I was once in an Indian restaurant when a group of bevvy up'd blokes came in and thought it was perfectly reasonable to start abusing the staff and turning the tables over..if you didn't live through the days of the National Front then it's probably best not to speculate on the veracity of my claims.

That was precisely the point I was making.

 

 

Remember it well. Disgraceful.

[tinfoilhat]

I agree, but I've yet to see such shops being commonplace. The merchant personality wouldn't allow them to restrict their potential market by not speaking the language or encouraging native speakers to spend their money in their shops and restaurants.

 

 

It really depends where you look. Obviously places like east London has swathes of places like it, but I've seen smaller places have significant pocket - Luton, aldershot and Peterborough (the latter eastern Europeans).

[boyfriday]

It really depends where you look. Obviously places like east London has swathes of places like it, but I've seen smaller places have significant pocket - Luton, aldershot and Peterborough (the latter eastern Europeans).

 

I know London and Luton quite well but not Aldershot or Peterborough, but Im not sure what you want the immigrants in those communities to do..they're presumably serving the people around them, but I'm not sure it's such a good example of a lack of integration..immigrants over time improve themselves and move to more affluent areas as they do so.

 

I was driving through Hyson Green in Nottingham not so long ago, 30 years ago it was almost exclusively a black area with the the shops and businesses reflecting that. More recently it was predominantly Asian, so I was surprised on my drive through that the Asian corner shops had been replaced by ones sporting a signs in what I think was Polish! The Asians and blacks have largely gone and the white East Europeans moved in and changed the scenery to suit their needs. That's what happens, the immigrants we see today arent the same ones we saw years ago but they will naturally gravitate to areas of cheap housing and where they're likely to encounter familiarity..you can imagine they wouldn't believe moving en masse to Dore or Ranmoor or Parson Cross that they'd be met by friendly faces.