tinfoilhat Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Just this week we've had: Dementia patients to be tagged with GPS tracking devices: http://news.sky.com/story/1085308/gps-tags-for-dementia-patients-barbaric Smartphones to be turned into debit cards so that you can be targeted by advertising as you walk past a store and tracked via your access to the internet: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/apr/28/mobile-phone-networks-electronic-wallet http://www.policymic.com/articles/33975/how-your-mobile-phone-can-spy-on-you-thanks-to-the-fbi The government installing a fake version of Mozilla Firefox onto people's computers so they can literally sit in your living room/ office and spy on what you're up to: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet-security/10032822/Mozilla-furious-as-disguised-spyware-used-against-pro-democracy-activists.html and you're all here welcoming the use of drones. (Apart from Nagel, who's always been one of the more sensible and informed posters on this forum). It's a steady drip drip of intrusive state and corporate surveillance technology into our society. It affects everyone, not just criminals and one day, in the not too distant future it will affect you. Perhaps they'll want to build on your favourite play area as a kid, you have a sentimental attachment to it and so you peacefully protest against it, it makes you an automatic target for extra surveillance. By then though it will be too late for you to do anything about it. You'll turn to people for help and you'll receive the stupid brick wall answer- 'well don't do anything illegal then', the point is, you don't need to. It's not about criminality, that's just how the government/ corporations are selling it to you, it's about your ability to live in a reasonably free society; your right to a private life, free from state intrusion; your right to participate in and, where necessary, criticise the democratic process; your right to not be spyed on in your home unless the government has evidence that you've done something wrong. Allowing this technology in targets everybody, it assumes everyone is suspect and that it's just a matter of time before they catch you, it dehumanises the whole population. It's a very dangerous position for those at the bottom of the power pyramid to be in because those in power above you, having to deal with society en masse, don't recognise that you're an individual, they lump you in with everyone else and automatically see you as a potential problem that might need dealing with. Would you be happy with a member of the Secret Service and the bosses of all major corporations moving into your home with you, following you to the office, to the shops, on holiday and taking notes on you the whole while to send back to their respective head offices? If the answers no then you really need to start making your voice heard now. Tagging of dementia patients is very sensible. If they wonder off they can be traced within the hospital or if they still live at home, before they wonder into to traffic or get lost and die of hypothermia. If you can give me a downside to this idea I'd love to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Tagging of dementia patients is very sensible. If they wonder off they can be traced within the hospital or if they still live at home, before they wonder into to traffic or get lost and die of hypothermia. If you can give me a downside to this idea I'd love to hear it. How about the fact that they're people and not cattle? They have as much right as anyone else to a private life without the state monitoring and controlling their every movement. If their families want to use the technology and they control the access to it, fair enough, but the state should not be given this level of control over the disabled because some states, in the fairly recent past, have been known to murder and sterilise disabled people in the interests of eugenics and we can't be certain this won't happen again. It's potentially the thin edge of a very dangerous wedge. ---------- Post added 05-05-2013 at 14:58 ---------- You do realise that the "drone" is just a radio controlled plane (with camera) being flown by the activists themselves? It doesn't matter, these types of stories are designed to normalise the idea of this technology being used to monitor our movements. If you hear enough cases of this occurring, and if in each case it seems reasonable, then eventually you begin to believe that the whole surveillance system is reasonable. It isn't and it needs some proper debate in this country as to exactly where it's heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 It doesn't matter, these types of stories are designed to normalise the idea of this technology being used to monitor our movements. If you hear enough cases of this occurring, and if in each case it seems reasonable, then eventually you begin to believe that the whole surveillance system is reasonable. It isn't and it needs some proper debate in this country as to exactly where it's heading. It's been normal for a long time, ever since camera phones became popular. Any time some dramatic or suspicious event takes place, out come come the cam phones. Have a look at that Youtube thingy. The only difference between the activists using hand held cameras and an R/C aeroplane camera is the angle. Blame Roger Cook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 How about the fact that they're people and not cattle? They have as much right as anyone else to a private life without the state monitoring and controlling their every movement. If their families want to use the technology and they control the access to it, fair enough, but the state should not be given this level of control over the disabled because some states, in the fairly recent past, have been known to murder and sterilise disabled people in the interests of eugenics and we can't be certain this won't happen again. It's potentially the thin edge of a very dangerous wedge. What a breathtakingly naive post. What if they haven't any family? Do we just let them roam about? That's what largly happens now unless they end up in a home where there no tags just doors with big key locks on them. But you've already backed down a bit anyway by letting families do it - you seem to think that every family want the very best for rather than a quiet life - its very much a double edged sword. Dementia sufferers by the time they need a tag would very probably had most privacy and dignity stripped away from them by the disease anyway. A tag might just give a bit back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 What a breathtakingly naive post. What if they haven't any family? Do we just let them roam about? That's what largly happens now unless they end up in a home where there no tags just doors with big key locks on them. But you've already backed down a bit anyway by letting families do it - you seem to think that every family want the very best for rather than a quiet life - its very much a double edged sword. Dementia sufferers by the time they need a tag would very probably had most privacy and dignity stripped away from them by the disease anyway. A tag might just give a bit back. You're absolutely right, there's no guarantee that family members wouldn't abuse this technology either. How about we just work out how to care for these people without the need for invasive and potentially harmful monitoring technology? Without the need to treat them like criminals or cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagel Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Don't do anything illegal then. But social progress has always been made by breaking bad laws. Not all laws are right. ---------- Post added 05-05-2013 at 14:50 ---------- Americans are already working against the deployment of drones in their country - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiWuc5Budqk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Obviously these drones should be deployed to monitor benefit claimants' shopping trips, and to report back if they buy booze or cigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 You're absolutely right, there's no guarantee that family members wouldn't abuse this technology either. How about we just work out how to care for these people without the need for invasive and potentially harmful monitoring technology? Without the need to treat them like criminals or cattle. The alternatives to tagging are putting them in a home where they have to suffer the indignities that tinfoilhat mentioned or stay in their own home with 24 hour supervision (usually be a relative). Tags might be the thing that allows them a bit more time as an independent person in their own home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The alternatives to tagging are putting them in a home where they have to suffer the indignities that tinfoilhat mentioned or stay in their own home with 24 hour supervision (usually be a relative). Tags might be the thing that allows them a bit more time as an independent person in their own home. The tags aren't designed to help these patients, they're being used to save police time at the expense of these patients rights to a private life (as in private from the state not private from other people). You start eroding the rights of citizens to a private life in this way and eventually you end up with complete tyranny. I can't believe so many people in Britain seem to have such a poor grasp of this considering our past history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The tags aren't designed to help these patients, they're being used to save police time at the expense of these patients rights to a private life (as in private from the state not private from other people). You start eroding the rights of citizens to a private life in this way and eventually you end up with complete tyranny. I can't believe so many people in Britain seem to have such a poor grasp of this considering our past history. Absolute rhubarb. It's an Nhs thing and the Nhs have countless ways of wasting the money this scheme costs. If you have anything apart from your own paranoia to remotely prove the idea is police driven than care driven, please show me. Altus btw, has it spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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