How is British history taught in schools?

[mjw47]

I had an aunt who used to finish every conversation on the phone with "au revoir" although those were the only two French words she knew.

 

Poor lady! miles above her social station

 

I can assure you that those were not the only French words she knew, she knew hundreds, & used them every day, as do you & I, and anyone else who speaks English.

 

The reason why English is such a brilliant language is that, like a sponge, it absorbed bits of virtually every language that it came into contact with.

The reason for so many French words however, isn't so much absorption as coercion. Following the Norman Conquest the French replaced the entire aristocracy with French speakers & continued to speak French for centuries afterwards. By the time English came to be spoken it had thousands of French words included into it by common usage.

If you wished to remain healthy it was a good idea to know what the nasty git on the horse with a sword in his hand was on about.

 

Programme is Greek, programma & both are underlined in red by my spell checker, bloody Yanks

 

English originally of course is a Germanic language.

[callippo]

It's not so long ago that many US citizens could trace there ancestry back to these Islands and within a generation that has changed

 

that is not really true. The US has never been like an 'annexe' of the UK and the white gene pool there has always been varied. Plenty of Spanish, French and German and also a lot of other European. Even in about 1970, when Alistair Cooke made that seminal documentary 'America', he estimated that about 25% of Americans could trace a British bloodline. High, yes. Maybe even the highest of all especially if you include Irish. But nowhere near as much as in Australia, where you can tell, just by reading the names of the cricket teams in the 1950s and compare to them to today, how much has changed. Back then they almost all of them had British or Irish names. Now they are much more cosmopolitan sounding.

[Harleyman]

I can assure you that those were not the only French words she knew, she knew hundreds, & used them every day, as do you & I, and anyone else who speaks English.

 

The reason why English is such a brilliant language is that, like a sponge, it absorbed bits of virtually every language that it came into contact with.

The reason for so many French words however, isn't so much absorption as coercion. Following the Norman Conquest the French replaced the entire aristocracy with French speakers & continued to speak French for centuries afterwards. By the time English came to be spoken it had thousands of French words included into it by common usage.

If you wished to remain healthy it was a good idea to know what the nasty git on the horse with a sword in his hand was on about.

 

Programme is Greek, programma & both are underlined in red by my spell checker, bloody Yanks

 

English originally of course is a Germanic language.

 

Thank god for Geoffrey Chaucer otherwise we might all be speaking some kind of barftadized French today. At least the Canterbury Tales showed us the way to the true light

 

Some claim that the Saxon language survived after the conquest because while many common soldiers in the Norman army married Saxon women they spent a lot of time away from home serving their barons, warlords and masters and meanwhile their wives brought the kids up speaking Saxon

[Waltheof]

Thank god for Geoffrey Chaucer otherwise we might all be speaking some kind of barftadized French today. At least the Canterbury Tales showed us the way to the true light

 

Some claim that the Saxon language survived after the conquest because while many common soldiers in the Norman army married Saxon women they spent a lot of time away from home serving their barons, warlords and masters and meanwhile their wives brought the kids up speaking Saxon

 

English was never in danger of being lost because the ruling Norman class consisted of only a few thousand at the most, in a population of perhaps 1.5 to 2 million English. Norman French was a dialect of French and was spoken by the elite, but gradually faded out, especially with the loss of the Duchy of Normandy in 1203, and the prestige of Central French replaced it. By 1300 there is evidence that French had to be taught to the aristocrats and was not their first language. However, most English kings up to the time of Richard II (who was brought up in Bordeaux) did use French. Many government records can be found both in French and Latin, but from the second half of the 14th century written English begins to replace them. It's a complex picture and I've simplified it somewhat.

[Annie Bynnol]

 

The reason why English is such a brilliant language is that, like a sponge, it absorbed bits of virtually every language that it came into contact with.

The reason for so many French words however, isn't so much absorption as coercion. Following the Norman Conquest the French replaced the entire aristocracy with French speakers & continued to speak French for centuries afterwards. By the time English came to be spoken it had thousands of French words included into it by common usage......

 

Totally agree.

Pre Norman (Old English) is not understood by the untrained.

Hwät! we Gâr-Dena in geâr-dagum

Chaucer (Middle English- 1350) is not understood by most.

Ye seken lond and see for your wynnynges,

Shakespeare (Early modern English- 1450) is understood by most. This was the time of greatest change and the practice of using, seeking out, creating new, and absorbing foreign words created the language with by far the biggest vocabulary of any language. Literature also allowed the classes to understand each other- well nearly as some have supper and some have dinner.

[Harleyman]

I wonder sometimes if people of my grandfathers generation could understand half of what people today are on about.

 

Tweet, twitter, text, fax, lower case, upper case, online, offline, uppers and downers....pop divas...

 

It would seem a strange kind of Englsih to them on occasion. If they were alive today it's quite possible they'd believe that an alien invasion had taken place

[Rupert_Baehr]

It is all in the past. Even recent history

 

Couple of interesting stories this week:

 

1. The assassination of Alexander Litvinenko. Obviously a salient event in British-Russian post-cold war relations. But much of what really happened may never be publicly known. At best it might be 30-40-50 years before details are released. Try blending that into an account. It may actually be easier for a historian in 50 years to do it justice.

 

2. Turkish discomfort over the Armenian genocide in 1915. Captain Terossian, an Armenian and one of the officers of the Ottoman armies at Gallipoli, detailed his experiences in a biography. Even nearly a 100 years later some Turkish academics still struggle to accept that Armenians and Turks fought on the same side at Gallipoli...

 

 

History is what you want it to be. Anybody can selectively stack up evidence to present a view of events. Sometimes the evidence is not there to stack up.

 

And that's the problem. I was fortunate enough to see a weekly 'News Update' for some years which reported 'The Truth' (Well, about as true as you can get.)

 

Perhaps unsurprisingly, that News Update (because News is very recent history indeed) was highly classified and forthright. - Some of the contents would, had they been published, have caused 'consternation' in some very high places.

 

If you consider the British Government's definition of the classifications 'Secret' and 'Top Secret' (and the classifications themselves are not classified) you'll see why.

 

(Most) Politicians will do anything to stay in power.

 

Alter the news? - Not a problem.

 

Alter history? - Even less of a problem

 

The version of History you read will vary with the opinions of the author.

 

That's the way life is.

[Harleyman]

The English language, written using Roman letters, as are the languages of Spain, France Germany, Italy & most other European countries. Britain, a country named by the Romans as are numerous other European countries.

America, a country whose political system includes a Senate invented by the Romans.

 

Not bad for an Empire that fell over 1,500 years ago.

 

Will we have had the same impact on history 1,500 years from now? Who knows?

 

Personally, as far as Britain is concerned, I think we will play the part that the Greeks played in the Roman story.

We will be regarded in a similar light in the American story, influential in the beginning, inconsequential in the end.

 

Obviously, it will all depend on whether or not we can sort out the giant Ponzi scheme which is currently referred to as the Western financial system.

 

If we cannot, then American hegemony may go down as the shortest lived 'Top Dog' status in history.

 

Strange why Roman numerals are still used. Kings and Queens seem particularly fond of being referred to as George VI and so on.

 

Even at the end of the credit listings in movieland they use MCXXXV or some such to show when that movie was made or they can be seen engraved on the corner stones of old buildings

 

Pretty dumb and irrelevent. Not many people understand Roman numerology. Latin is another waste of time. The only people who speak it are gowned and capped old relics wandering around university cloisters

 

Redundancy complete and absolute

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2013 at 20:54 ----------

 

English was never in danger of being lost because the ruling Norman class consisted of only a few thousand at the most, in a population of perhaps 1.5 to 2 million English. Norman French was a dialect of French and was spoken by the elite, but gradually faded out, especially with the loss of the Duchy of Normandy in 1203, and the prestige of Central French replaced it. By 1300 there is evidence that French had to be taught to the aristocrats and was not their first language. However, most English kings up to the time of Richard II (who was brought up in Bordeaux) did use French. Many government records can be found both in French and Latin, but from the second half of the 14th century written English begins to replace them. It's a complex picture and I've simplified it somewhat.

 

Veritably thou hast spoken goodly trooth and kydded me not

[mjw47]

Thank god for Geoffrey Chaucer otherwise we might all be speaking some kind of barftadized French today. At least the Canterbury Tales showed us the way to the true light

 

Some claim that the Saxon language survived after the conquest because while many common soldiers in the Norman army married Saxon women they spent a lot of time away from home serving their barons, warlords and masters and meanwhile their wives brought the kids up speaking Saxon

 

The French made a huge mistake in my opinion by attempting to regulate their language & refusing to accept new words if they had foreign origin.

Absolute daft way of carrying on. Language is there for the purpose of conveying thoughts, emotions & ideas between people. If you come across a word like bungalow which is Indian (Gandhi not Cherokee ) & it describes a particular object for which there wasn't a previous single word description, get it used, after all, we nicked their land what's a few words?

 

The amount of different languages which contribute to the English language is

extensive. Any look through the OED at the 'origin' information following the definition of words include, Latin, Greek, French, German, Spanish, Irish, Indian ( Cherokee & Gandhi ) to name a few.

 

Latin is probably second only to French, so no Harleyman, you & I speak it & whilst I'm reluctantly (Latin : reluctari ) prepared to accept ( Latin: acceptare ) that I'm an old relic ( Latin: reliquiae ) I am not , as yet gowned & capped.

 

Brilliant language English. Because it's not actually English, it's universal.

[Rupert_Baehr]

How about "programme" (English) and "program" (American). Is it some kind of elitism that an extra "m" and an "e' should be added at the end of the word and which serves no purpose whatsoever?

 

 

"Labour" as opposed to "labor" or "harbour" as opposed to "harbor"

 

Why the letter "u" in the words. English people dont pronounce the words as 'lay-bower" or har-bower" but the word "our" is pronounced as "ow-er" though

 

It's no wonder that most foreigners find English pronunciation of words as completely baffling.

 

Let's eliminate the redundancy and all go American

 

american English is 'stripped down' English, designed to make it simpler for foreigners to fit in quickly.

 

"Are you tired, Dear boy? - Do you have one at each corner?"

 

Stationery ? Stationary. Two words with similar sounds, but different - spellings and meanings. Not in American (Where many of the Immigrants couldn't manage a huge number of words and it was easier to use one word for 2 or 3 meanings and let syntax sort it out.)

 

Thank god for Geoffrey Chaucer otherwise we might all be speaking some kind of barftadized French today. At least the Canterbury Tales showed us the way to the true light

 

I learned to speak (not just read) Chaucerian English. (Why not?) It's a really expressive language.

 

Read 'The Tales" in the original and there's a bit more than you'll find in the sanitised version.

 

Sorry - That argument's as f**ked up as a football bat, too. - The 'f' you used is a German symbol (a soft 's') (and it shouldn't have the bit sticking out of the front.) Nothing to do with Bill the Barsteward.

 

Some claim that the Saxon language survived after the conquest because while many common soldiers in the Norman army married Saxon women they spent a lot of time away from home serving their barons, warlords and masters and meanwhile their wives brought the kids up speaking Saxon

 

Travel in those times was difficult. If you lived in - say - East Anglia, you were hardly likely to bugger off to London for the weekend. - Easier to go to Amsterdam and the hookers were better and cheaper.

 

Strange why Roman numerals are still used. Kings and Queens seem particularly fond of being referred to as George VI and so on.

 

Even at the end of the credit listings in movieland they use MCXXXV or some such to show when that movie was made or they can be seen engraved on the corner stones of old buildings

 

Pretty dumb and irrelevent. Not many people understand Roman numerology. Latin is another waste of time. The only people who speak it are gowned and capped old relics wandering around university cloisters...

 

'Numerology' and 'numbers' are two different words with two very different meanings.

 

The "First World' (the civilised One, as opposed to the 'New World) has certain

unwritten (they don't have to be, because they're so widely understood amongst civilised peoples) conventions which dictate the use of Roman numerals.

 

Popes, Emperors and Kings traditionally use Roman Numerals in their names.

 

Others do not.

 

So George Hamilton lV is actually - to use Euopean or Indian styles of address: Mr GH Iv.

 

Americans have problems with that. I have a neighbour whose name is 'Ill' - as in 'Sick'

 

It took him 3 years to persuade the US government that he was 'Paul Ill' and not Paul I the second.'

 

(I've no problem whatsoever in arguing with anybody about anything ... and if you push me hard enough, I'll argue either side ... but when it comes to logic and linguistics in English it's really difficult to argue the American side.

 

It's probably better to walk away from that one.

 

Back to the original question (and, perhaps the point of the question) I doubt that history in the UK [and I know it's taught better there than in the US] is taught in an 'unbiased' manner anywhere.

 

Where you aware that King James- the guy who sponsored the Bible translation [used widely in the US] (I"ll get my dig in later) - (Or Queen James, as he was known to his friends) was an homosexual?

 

My history teacher certainly didn't tell me that. - Nor did he quote the (outrageous ?) pun in which the Kings own ministers objected to his expenditures on "Private ****' - the word '**** had 2 meanings. The first was the same as it has now, the second meant 'tax' .

 

Had my teacher told the truth, that would've (perhaps ) made history slightly less boring ... but we can't talk about 'Queer Kings', can we?

 

That's just misrepresentation of history at the 'silly' level ... but if it happened there, did it happen elsewhere?

 

Where and how?

 

We know, for instance, that Paul Revere discovered computing long before Alan Turing or anybody else.

 

'One' if by LAN, 'Two' if by "C".

 

Americans invented the Telephone, the TV, and the Lavatory brush (Albeit not until the late 1960s.)

 

There's much which fails to meet the eye.