How is British history taught in schools?

[I1L2T3]

Interesting discussion. Lists in history are limited for many reasons. A list of dates/events is what many of us recognise as being history. It isn't. It's just lists that somebody compiled. The list can never be complete. It's most likely biased.

 

Earlier in the thread I linked to the crude Winston Churchill gift site. I didn't find any tea towels celebrating his ineptness in WW1 military/naval campaigns or the economic disaster around the gold standard. A list of major events in his life would miss those out too if it wad biased towards presenting a favourable image.

[mjw47]

What is so special about the USA? Well it's the most powerful country the world has ever known for a start. It's military expenditure outstrips the next five militarized nations combined by some margin.

 

There is also the cultural hegemony to take into account. American films, television, music & fashion are dominant. Even the people who claim to hate them walk about in jeans, baseball caps & hoodys imitating American youth.

[callippo]

Many indigenous people have been dispossessed by incomers but not all were Empires. For instance the Angles & Saxons arrived from what is now Germany & occupied England. That did not make them an Empire. They did not receive ongoing instructions from, nor pay taxes to, their country of origin.

 

what they did was invade a foreign country from a previous base, usurp it and exploit it as a bigger tax base than they had before. Of course it was imperialism just like the subsequent Danish and other invasions were. If the USA had invaded Iraq, annexed it, and decided to replace Washington DC with Baghdad as its capital which is basically what William the Conqueror did, you'd be the first one to cry imperialist.

[mjw47]

Interesting discussion. Lists in history are limited for many reasons. A list of dates/events is what many of us recognise as being history. It isn't. It's just lists that somebody compiled. The list can never be complete. It's most likely biased.

 

Earlier in the thread I linked to the crude Winston Churchill gift site. I didn't find any tea towels celebrating his ineptness in WW1 military/naval campaigns or the economic disaster around the gold standard. A list of major events in his life would miss those out too if it wad biased towards presenting a favourable image.

 

The thing that amused me recently with regard to Churchill was the fuss made over the forthcoming fiver with his face on it. The announcement was made from Chartwell without a trace of irony.

 

Churchill bought Chartwell with the bribe he received from the Burmah Oil company in 1923. The bribe was £5000 (todays equivalent £300,000) to use his influence with regard to Persian oil rights.

 

Bet they didn't put that on the tea towels did they? Corrupt politicians, nothing changes.

[shanes teeth]

One of my most hated people in history besides Hitler is General Haigh .He was the most stupid & dangerous idiot. Sat there drinking Port & eating fine food while he led millions of innocents to their slaughter & called it " collateral damage "

 

That's an incredibly simplistic view of Haigs career.

[Harleyman]

My father served under Montgomery in North Africa, he was extremely disparaging in his views of the man & claimed that Monty was generally disliked amongst the Troops.

He was regarded as a self promoting glory hunter who was more concerned as to his place in history than anything else.

Whether that was an altogether fair assessment I don't know as I haven't studied his career in any detail myself.

 

I know he strongly disapproved of smoking which didnt go down well with his subordinate commanders. No one dared to smoke at his briefings and even his boss general Eisenhower didnt light one up when in his presence

[callippo]

Churchill bought Chartwell with the bribe he received from the Burmah Oil company in 1923. The bribe was £5000 (todays equivalent £300,000) to use his influence with regard to Persian oil rights.

 

do you have a link for that?

 

as usual, they just make stuff up to suit the contemporary left 'agenda' and just hope that nobody will challenge them on the facts. Churchill wasn't even in the Conservative party in 1923 but stood as a Liberal in the election the previous year, and lost in Dundee. He had very little influence in the government at all, in 1923. He wasn't even an MP, never mind a Minister. And yet you are trying to make out that he had 'influence'.

 

the kind of nonsense, where people define that '21st century imperialism' is whatever the USA does, extends to the same individual's assessement of somebody like Winston Churchill's career. They just make stuff up to suit.

[denlin]

I know he strongly disapproved of smoking which didnt go down well with his subordinate commanders. No one dared to smoke at his briefings and even his boss general Eisenhower didnt light one up when in his presence

 

Eisenhower was hardly Montgomerys boss since, and I hate to tell you this, America did not win the war - indeed it was half over before they joined in.

[callippo]

Eisenhower was hardly Montgomerys boss since

 

Eisenhower could have had Montgomery fired at any moment. As it was, the best he could do was just freeze him out. He probably wanted to fire him. But he realised he was the least-worst-option. The standard of the British commanders in WW2 was very poor, few objective people would argue with this. They didn't protect them in 1914-18, but which the Germans eventually did in 1914-18 after letting far too many be sacrificed earlier on as the British continued to do it. So 20 years later, the Germans had a better supply of commanders than the British did. They hadn't already been killed in the previous war, like many more of the Brits were.

[Harleyman]

What is so special about the USA? Well it's the most powerful country the world has ever known for a start. It's military expenditure outstrips the next five militarized nations combined by some margin.

 

There is also the cultural hegemony to take into account. American films, television, music & fashion are dominant. Even the people who claim to hate them walk about in jeans, baseball caps & hoodys imitating American youth.

 

Speaking as an ex-pat and a naturalized US citizen I would hope in my life time that I see the beginnings of a sea change in America.

We can no longer afford to play the role of supreme world military power or be the crusader for spreading the idea freedom and democracy.

At this moment with the situation in Syria and reports of the use of chemical weapons by Assad it appears that the US is being looked to once again to take the lead in any action against the Assad regime. And what would be the outcome if we did? Assad is deposed and who takes over Syria? We dont even know. It could be any group from Al Qaeda to Hezbollah even.

It's yet another mess and a possible quagmire and if innocent civilians are dying it wouldnt be the first time it's happened. We didnt get involved in Rwanda or when the Kmer Rouge ruled Cambodia so why bother about Syria.

Let Russia and China deal with it. They still aspire to be world powers so it's time they had the chance to be real players.

 

The US has given away trillions since the end of WW2 in foreign aid, much of it to countries who hate and despise it and even today millions are going to countries who are openly hostile.

 

The sad part about all this is that despite being the world's foremost nation among the first world countries we dont have a national health plan that's comparable in any way with Europe's. An American does not get the same medical treatment that his European counterpart receives and many die or go into bankruptcy because they A. Couln't afford the treatment or B. Lose their homes and everything they've saved in order to pay for that treatment

 

A sad situation indeed

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2013 at 18:51 ----------

 

Eisenhower was hardly Montgomerys boss since, and I hate to tell you this, America did not win the war - indeed it was half over before they joined in.

 

Eisenhower was appointed Supreme Commander European Theatre.. The decison to launch Operation Overlord - the allied landings in Normany on D-Day June 6, 1944 was Eisenhowers decision to take The weather had been bad in the early part of June with rough seas in the channel. A Met report that there would be a short break in the bad weather June 5th thru June 6th led to his decison. The responsibity for success or failure was his alone and in fact Eisenhower had already drafted a letter taking full resonsibilty if the invasion had failed.

That sounds like someone who was the boss to me. But you dont have to believe me. Read it up for yourself.

 

Eisenhower also had to deal with two giant egos. Montgomery's and American General George Patton's. Ike deserves a lot of credit for his tact and patience in handling those two Prima Donnas