Never thought Tarbuck was funny.

[Halibut]

Thank you for correcting yourself and proving my point,this situation is unique and you wont be able to find historical evidence ,nor will I,I repeat if you think that every person who has come forward is true then youre not very bright,I believe theres been at least one already been published ,anonymous fo course,in one of the chic lit mags and that was before any findings by the police.In no way am I saying that the accusers are all lying indeed I would only expect a small minority to be false but like it or not it does happen and time will no doubt prove me correct, as for your list of celebrities only Hall can be spoken about in confidence the others have either not been charged or not been to court as yet,so for that purpose my comments are not about any of them just Saville.

 

The faintly repellent sound of someone squirming in their own ordure.

[Glamrocker]

The faintly repellent sound of someone squirming in their own ordure.

What you on about now ?you do post some crap

Youve already let your true colours show on another thread where you refused to answer my question about homosexuals in the mosque,whats up Halibut nobody want to play with you

[tyke]

My money's on Basil Brush!

[mikem8634]

Thank you for correcting yourself and proving my point,this situation is unique and you wont be able to find historical evidence ,nor will I,I repeat if you think that every person who has come forward is true then youre not very bright,I believe theres been at least one already been published ,anonymous fo course,in one of the chic lit mags and that was before any findings by the police.In no way am I saying that the accusers are all lying indeed I would only expect a small minority to be false but like it or not it does happen and time will no doubt prove me correct, as for your list of celebrities only Hall can be spoken about in confidence the others have either not been charged or not been to court as yet,so for that purpose my comments are not about any of them just Saville.

 

But not ALL I see you missed that point

 

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I think all accusations and allegations should be accepted as true without investigation and that I have denied the existence of false allegations. You have oviously missed the posts where I have stated that false accusations are abhorrent.

 

You have also conveniently forgotten that I have asked about evidence of false allegations for financial reasons. I haven't even denied that they exist as I'm pretty sure there is a good possibility that a handful of extreme cases could be found, although nobody has yet.

 

Many posters, including yourself have had a lot to say about compo seekers (a truly horrible phrase) but have not been able to back it up with a single shred of evidence. Surely if the problem is so widespread as to warrant being be brought up every time a celebrity is linked to a sex crime then there would be evidence of all of those prosecutions of people wasting police time and committing fraud by making false allegations in order to gain unwarranted compensation.

 

Where are the details of those cases?

Why have those prosecutions not happened?

There is no need to insist on confining yourself to the Savile case. In the history of celebrities being accused of sex crimes how many people have been prosecuted for fraud or any other money-related crime?

 

Whenever there is a thread about a burglary or a robbery are you quick to get in there with aspersions relating to insurance fraud?

 

Whenever there is a missing persons thread to you rush to post details about the John Darwin case to remind people that faking your own death to collect the insurance is a significant problem rather than just a weirdly extreme case?

 

If I was to look back at the threads about Asian men grooming young girls would I find you making several posts reminding people about false allegations and compensation?

 

Is it not time to accept that evidence does not exist in significant numbers because false allegations for financial gain do not exist in significant numbers?

[Suffragette1]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/operation-yewtree-jimmy-savile-police-1881453

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2013 at 09:18 ----------

 

For Mr Smith and Just Sarah, this article refers to the fact that only a small number of rapes are reported, something you have both questioned.

 

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/06/sexual-offences-victims-anonymity?CMP=twt_gu

 

Almost 90% of people who experience a serious sexual offence*don't report it to the police. These statistics are from the British Crime Survey, which doesn't even count those without an address (the homeless, or those in mental health institutions, for instance). Victims fail to report for many reasons – but chief among them, according to many working at the front line in rape crisis centres, is the sense of shame and violation and the fear of stigma that will attach itself even if they have done no wrong. Rosa Knight, helpline co-ordinator at Rape Crisis, says: "The main reason women don't go to the police is the shame. Anonymity when they do is absolutely crucial."

[harvey19]

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I think all accusations and allegations should be accepted as true without investigation and that I have denied the existence of false allegations. You have oviously missed the posts where I have stated that false accusations are abhorrent.

 

You have also conveniently forgotten that I have asked about evidence of false allegations for financial reasons. I haven't even denied that they exist as I'm pretty sure there is a good possibility that a handful of extreme cases could be found, although nobody has yet.

 

Many posters, including yourself have had a lot to say about compo seekers (a truly horrible phrase) but have not been able to back it up with a single shred of evidence. Surely if the problem is so widespread as to warrant being be brought up every time a celebrity is linked to a sex crime then there would be evidence of all of those prosecutions of people wasting police time and committing fraud by making false allegations in order to gain unwarranted compensation.

 

Where are the details of those cases?

Why have those prosecutions not happened?

There is no need to insist on confining yourself to the Savile case. In the history of celebrities being accused of sex crimes how many people have been prosecuted for fraud or any other money-related crime?

 

Whenever there is a thread about a burglary or a robbery are you quick to get in there with aspersions relating to insurance fraud?

 

Whenever there is a missing persons thread to you rush to post details about the John Darwin case to remind people that faking your own death to collect the insurance is a significant problem rather than just a weirdly extreme case?

 

If I was to look back at the threads about Asian men grooming young girls would I find you making several posts reminding people about false allegations and compensation?

 

Is it not time to accept that evidence does not exist in significant numbers because false allegations for financial gain do not exist in significant numbers?

 

It seems to me that you both need to take a step back and consider why the Saville case is different to any other.

Mr. Saville is dead and so there is no way the complainants allegations can be brought to court thereby the complainants will not be cross examined in a court of law.

As there is no forensic evidence it is unlikely that a definite decision of his guilt will be able to be decided.

There is a very high probability due to witnesses that he committed some offences.

The police will be in possession of much more information on all aspects of the case which will probably never become public.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2013 at 10:49 ----------

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/operation-yewtree-jimmy-savile-police-1881453

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2013 at 09:18 ----------

 

For Mr Smith and Just Sarah, this article refers to the fact that only a small number of rapes are reported, something you have both questioned.

 

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/06/sexual-offences-victims-anonymity?CMP=twt_gu

 

You keep referring to the Rape Crisis Centre but I would like to see their views and statistics compared to those of the South Yorkshire Police Sexual Offences Unit in regard to the cases they deal with.

[Suffragette1]

It seems to me that you both need to take a step back and consider why the Saville case is different to any other.

Mr. Saville is dead and so there is no way the complainants allegations can be brought to court thereby the complainants will not be cross examined in a court of law.

As there is no forensic evidence it is unlikely that a definite decision of his guilt will be able to be decided.

There is a very high probability due to witnesses that he committed some offences.

The police will be in possession of much more information on all aspects of the case which will probably never become public.

 

That is very true. Had those who reported him at the time been taken seriously, had there not been "missed opportunities" by West Yorkshire Police etc then this would not be happening. If this results in a true change of culture, then the Cyril Smiths et al of this world will face arrest during their life times rather than be exposed posthumously. We are in a transition period and there will undoubtedly be others who are named only in death as a result of Yewtree and Fernbridge.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2013 at 11:00 ----------

 

It seems to me that you both need to take a step back and consider why the Saville case is different to any other.

Mr. Saville is dead and so there is no way the complainants allegations can be brought to court thereby the complainants will not be cross examined in a court of law.

As there is no forensic evidence it is unlikely that a definite decision of his guilt will be able to be decided.

There is a very high probability due to witnesses that he committed some offences.

The police will be in possession of much more information on all aspects of the case which will probably never become public.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2013 at 10:49 ----------

 

 

You keep referring to the Rape Crisis Centre but I would like to see their views and statistics compared to those of the South Yorkshire Police Sexual Offences Unit in regard to the cases they deal with.

 

The Star compiled some stats on this, I'll try and get hold of them. However, I was referring to the Rape Crisis national (and umbrella) organisation in this instance.

[harvey19]

That is very true. Had those who reported him at the time been taken seriously, had there not been "missed opportunities" by West Yorkshire Police etc then this would not be happening. If this results in a true change of culture, then the Cyril Smiths et al of this world will face arrest during their life times rather than be exposed posthumously. We are in a transition period and there will undoubtedly be others who are named only in death as a result of Yewtree and Fernbridge.

 

Where any formal complaints made during Mr. Savilles lifetime or was it only intelligence that was passed between forces ?

I can't remember.

[Suffragette1]

Where any formal complaints made during Mr. Savilles lifetime or was it only intelligence that was passed between forces ?

I can't remember.

 

There were reports made to several forces and Savile was questioned on a number of occasions. For reasons unknown nothing further happened.

[harvey19]

There were reports made to several forces and Savile was questioned on a number of occasions. For reasons unknown nothing further happened.

I wonder if no formal complaints were made or accepted and the information was classed as intelligence rather than evidence.

If this is the case I find it worrying that enquiries were not made with others who now say they witnessed or had heard of his behaviour and could have corroborated the complainants allegations.

Or was it simply a case of others not wanting to get involved.