Here's one for the religious..

[SnailyBoy]

Hi smiley what book or books would you like me to read

 

---------- Post added 21-05-2013 at 21:06 ----------

 

sorry snaily still got it wrong perhaps sorry

 

Considering you think that there isn't proof of homo sapiens being on earth for more than 6000 years, I'm struggling to think of something. I take it you don't really have an interest in science.

[billlaunty]

Of course I am interested in science my remarks were at the billion year scientists and yes there was life on earth but before mankind. what man ha discovered since creation was

all ready there put there by the greatest scientist our creator

[SnailyBoy]

Of course I am interested in science my remarks were at the billion year scientists and yes there was life on earth but before mankind. what man ha discovered since creation was

all ready there put there by the greatest scientist our creator

 

What's your definition of a creator in this case?

[Ryedo40]

What's your definition of a creator in this case?

 

Apparently, his definition of a creator is the greatest scientist. Considering the flaws in our design, the creator scientist isn't a very good one.

[Cavegirl]

If by spandrel gene you mean by-product, then maybe yes: superstition/magical/causal thinking, trust of authority during childhood, etc are a result of our genetics. But I don't think there is a gene for religion. Religion, like many other beliefs, are just by-products of our ignorance, the need to understand, to feel safe and be in control. I think that is where many beliefs, not just religious, have their roots.

 

I am relating it to by-products in genetics here. I'm going to do some research into this theory and see what geneticists have to say about it. I'll get back to you if I find anything substantial.

 

I don't agree. Religions did exactly what people had designed them to do: to give them a sense of control and understanding. To make them feel good and safe.

 

The more meaningful parts(the feel good parts) would have probably developed in tandem - or would have been secondary.

 

Superheroes, superpowers, the supernatural, good aliens, bad aliens, bad ghosts, good ghosts, you name it: they appeal to us - atheist and theist - because what we can't physically do fuels our imaginations and needs. Likewise, what we don't understand or know, fuels our imaginations, fears and needs.

 

It always boils down to fear, the need to feel good and our inability and need to control.

 

I think that's the natural conclusion for those of us on the outside who simply observe religion, but is it true for the participants?

 

If you look at the Aboriginal Dreamtime for example, you find that religion was intrinsic to their personal sense of identity, an identity that directly linked them to their past, present and future as well as the local landscapes, flora and fauna- that's of greater human benefit than simply 'an understanding'.

It was also intrinsic to their highly complex social relationships (far more complex than ours actually), their religious role helped define their social role and it helped them to connect with those around them in a meaningful way. It united people together even when they had no family connections. As social complexity increased it gave people a shared identity and reason to care for each other beyond the basic genetic need to care for offspring and immediate family.

 

I think religion fills a lot of very complex roles for those who participate in it.

 

There is no actual supernatural in art or music, but we can appreciate the emotions art and music invoke.

 

By supernatural I'm not referring to a spirit world, I mean something 'greater' than reality. The use of imagination to imbue a piece of work with larger than life meaning. Artists and musicians always over or under-emphasize certain qualities in their work in order to acheive this because it's more appealing to us, it's why celebrities never really complain that their images are Photoshopped .

 

I can appreciate the mythology/fiction - some of the stories or the meaning behind them - but I don't view them as real events. When I rail against them, it's because of those pushing them as real events - and them trying to dictate (control) how we all should think and live our lives.

 

I wouldn't disagree on the last part at all. All I can really say to that is try not to let a few fundamentalists turn you completely against something that is part of our human experience. Stay rational when looking at the bigger picture, try not to get clouded by emotion because you might miss something of value to your own understanding of the world.

[Ryedo40]

I am relating it to by-products in genetics here. I'm going to do some research into this theory and see what geneticists have to say about it. I'll get back to you if I find anything substantial.

 

When you mentioned spandrel gene, I was assuming you meant religious beliefs are by-products of the way our brains developed or the way we think; so parts of the brain developed to do one thing, but also ended up doing something else(a by-product, like a spandrel gene).

 

If you look at the Aboriginal Dreamtime for example, you find that religion was intrinsic to their personal sense of identity, an identity that directly linked them to their past, present and future as well as the local landscapes, flora and fauna- that's of greater human benefit than simply 'an understanding'.

 

It was also intrinsic to their highly complex social relationships (far more complex than ours actually), their religious role helped define their social role and it helped them to connect with those around them in a meaningful way. It united people together even when they had no family connections. As social complexity increased it gave people a shared identity and reason to care for each other beyond the basic genetic need to care for offspring and immediate family.

 

I don't know too much about the Aboriginal Dreamtime, but the way I see it is that although they started off with the flawed premise of deity or spirit x, etc, everything else(the religion, many of behaviours, beliefs, etc) are going to develop around that. So of course it's going to play a greater and meaningful role in their identity, the way they relate to others and the environment, etc.

 

But ultimately, I think religion always pretty much boils down to what makes people feel good, to what fears them, and having a sense of control.

[billlaunty]

What's your definition of a creator in this case?

 

Ok the answer is in a book you said your self all the answers are in the books you read written mostly by million million men the millions are the explanation we come from fish we come from monkeys, and when we die well its just a natural thing that has to happen to

all of us ..........if that being the case why all the tears why all the sadness the reason

being that it is not natural to die at all my book tell me eternity has been put into mans heart

and mind....and there is one answer already why does every body dread dying? because the thought of eternity is in our mind. The religonists say oh were going to heaven but why does

nobody want to go to heaven oh we will be ready when our time comes! easy to say but

they dont want to die realy why because that thought of eternity is in our mind choose how

old we might become thats just one question that my book answers for me do you want to die

snailyboy

[SnailyBoy]

Ok the answer is in a book you said your self all the answers are in the books you read written mostly by million million men the millions are the explanation we come from fish we come from monkeys, and when we die well its just a natural thing that has to happen to

all of us ..........if that being the case why all the tears why all the sadness the reason

being that it is not natural to die at all my book tell me eternity has been put into mans heart

and mind....and there is one answer already why does every body dread dying? because the thought of eternity is in our mind. The religonists say oh were going to heaven but why does

nobody want to go to heaven oh we will be ready when our time comes! easy to say but

they dont want to die realy why because that thought of eternity is in our mind choose how

old we might become thats just one question that my book answers for me do you want to die

snailyboy

 

I have to be honest I was struggling a little to make out what you're trying to say here. I don't know which book you're referring to, I assume it's a book of scriptures of some sort. Those books don't contain facts or evidence to support facts, so therefore they cannot give answers. For example, if I went to the Bible to find out how old the Earth was, I would get the answer 6000 years, when in reality the Earth is 4.54 Billion years and we have the evidence to support it

 

In the matter of the 'explanation we come from fish we come from monkeys'. I assume again you're talking about evolution. Once again evolution is a fact and we have the evidence to support it, there aren't opinions on facts. Facts are just facts.

 

Your last question. Do i want to die?

 

Of course not, why would I?

 

I want to spend as much time alive, doing the things I enjoy. I'm lucky that I'm more privileged than other people in some other parts of the world who struggle to feed themselves or get a good education. Fear of death is natural for humans, and death is natural. However, shake off the notion that there's a 'better place' and enjoy the life you have already, it's the only one you'll have. Your book is a bedtime story or comfort blanket to make you feel better about dying.

 

Just think, in many billions of years everyone and everything will be star dust again, when the sun goes nova or the Andromeda Galaxy destroys the Earth. (We have the evidence to support that too).

[flamingjimmy]

People are afraid of dying... therefore god exists.

 

I must admit that's an argument I've never come across before, congratulations.

[PaliRichard]

Ok the answer is in a book you said your self all the answers are in the books you read written mostly by million million men the millions are the explanation we come from fish we come from monkeys, and when we die well its just a natural thing that has to happen to

all of us ..........if that being the case why all the tears why all the sadness the reason

being that it is not natural to die at all my book tell me eternity has been put into mans heart

and mind....and there is one answer already why does every body dread dying? because the thought of eternity is in our mind. The religonists say oh were going to heaven but why does

nobody want to go to heaven oh we will be ready when our time comes! easy to say but

they dont want to die realy why because that thought of eternity is in our mind choose how

old we might become thats just one question that my book answers for me do you want to die

snailyboy

 

I don't dread dying, not at all. And I'm not talking about on a superficial level either I mean deep, really deep rooted contentment and no fear of death whatsoever.

 

---------- Post added 22-05-2013 at 18:10 ----------

 

Of course I am interested in science my remarks were at the billion year scientists and yes there was life on earth but before mankind. what man ha discovered since creation was

all ready there put there by the greatest scientist our creator

 

I'm really very interested in this remark.

 

I do not know (and would greatly appreciate it if those that do could share their knowledge here) but I suspect that since modern man began to appear around 200,000 years ago that new species have come along.

 

Let me make myself clear, not just been discovered, but actually evolved. I have a 'gut feeling' that we were not the last species to reach our modern form, although I cannot say for certain.