HS2-What do you think?

[llamatron]

That's one of the points of it surely so I'd guess people do care about it.

 

HS2 = High Speed 2.

 

who? Most people that use the trains are concerned about the high prices-which will increase because of this, not the time it takes to get to london.

 

The mps will of course like it because they will spend less time on the train and don't have to pay for it.

 

It takes so little time to get to london anyway-I don't understand why people are sucked in by this.

[Guest]

who? Most people that use the trains are concerned about the high prices-which will increase because of this, not the time it takes to get to london.

 

The mps will of course like it because they will spend less time on the train and don't have to pay for it.

 

It takes so little time to get to london anyway-I don't understand why people are sucked in by this.

 

Hmm, maybe it could be all the commuters, or all the people that want to get to meetings around the country quicker or anything else that requires a quicker service.

 

Just because you don't understand anyone's reasons but your own doesn't mean they're not valid reasons.

[I1L2T3]

'There was a rocky valley between Buxton and Bakewell, once upon a time, divine as the vale of Tempe; you might have seen the gods there morning and evening, - Apollo and all the sweet Muses of the Light, walking in fair procession on the lawns of it, and to and fro among the pinnacles of its crags. You cared neither for gods nor grass, but for cash (which you did not know the way to get). You thought you could get it by what the Times calls 'Railroad Enterprise'. You enterprised a railroad through the valley, you blasted its rocks away, heaped thousands of tons of shale into its lovely stream. The valley is gone, and the gods with it; and now, every fool in Buxton can be at Bakewell in half-an-hour, and every fool in Bakewell at Buxton; which you think a lucrative process of exchange, you Fools everywhere!'. John Ruskin, 1863

 

Just sayin'

[Mecky]

My opinion is that it's just a vanity project. I can't see it benefiting anyone outside London, everything will gravitate towards London.

[llamatron]

Well to start, they're not massively underused. Looking just at the Sheffield to London route there are numerous bottlenecks and issues with it being a Victorian route:

• Sheffield station approaches are at capacity - while the station still has spaces at times, there is no more paths to get to the station (hence why if one train gets delayed en-route, lots of others have to be shuffled / delayed also)
  
• Sheffield - Dore is at capacity - it's not just passenger trains, but lots of freight uses the route
  
• Derby station is at capacity - the complex combinations of routes at the south of the station prevent more trains running through - various trains which used to run to Nottingham have been cut back to Derby to make the timetable robust
  
• Trent Junction (between Nottingham & Leeds) is at capacity
  
• Various curves between Trent & Bedford are too tight meaning speeds are restricted to below 100mph
  
• Bedford - Kentish Town is a congested piece of track with the number of commuter services
  
• St Pancras station is at capacity - services have to be cancelled if any of the commuter trains are diverted from running through London.
  

 

Similar issues exist across the entire country. On top of this there are issues like having to shut the route for several years while it is upgraded (to upgrade the line to HS standards it would effectively be a rebuild), rerouteing it around areas which aren't compatiable with the new standards, and probably rebuilding every bridge and tunnel on the route.

 

 

 

While new carriages can be added, there is a limit as to how far you can take it. More carriages means longer platforms and longer loading times and longer signalling sections - which means less trains can run (or they have to run slower). There comes a point (which seems to be about 240m in the UK) where it becomes easier to run another train.

 

Double decker carriages won't work in the UK because none of our lines (except HS1) are big enough to take them. To make them big enough would require a similar level of reconstruction as above. HS2 is being designed to the continental sizes and as such would be capable of taking double deckers.

 

they are only at capacity when they average the journeys out-a lot of trains between birmingham and sheffield are very quiet outside peak times. Its probably because the discounts for off peak just aren't worth it. in fact I get a derby to sheffield train that gets in at 8:20 which I would think is peak and thats always half empty. The one that gets in at 8:00 is also quiet. This should be a very busy line. There are bottle necks so why not invest in an extra line in those places.

[taxman]

The National Audit Office are having trouble identifying all the mysterious benefits to growth and employment that have been trumpeted.

 

It will cost billions for alleged benefits. The cost of travel will probably be prohibitive and no doubt if it makes a profit some private company will line its pockets and if it makes a loss further taxpayers monies will go towards propping it up.

 

All so some people can get to a business meeting in London half an hour earlier. When a conference call would probably have done just as well.

 

I thought the country was bankrupt? That's what I keep hearing.

[Obelix]

Its about time all these gob****es and NIMBYs shut the heck up. This is something we need desprately and has been long long overdue. .

 

Ah yes, nothing like proposing a position by abusing those who disagree with you.

 

Your points are valid regarding our rail infrastructure. However it could perhaps be that HS2 might not be the way to go about it?

 

I've got the HS2 line running through part of my land. I'm staunchly opposed to it because it's a white elephant. All it does is serve to reduce the time to London by a small amount. It's not going to do much for capacity either. It's a vanity project.

 

Now, if you increased the size of platforms and trains to run 12 car carriages, and upgraded the mainlines to London to enable higher speed running, perhaps easing out the sharper curves here and there, perhaps by building an extra dedicated track next to existing ones to enable though trains that would help and help significantly.

 

If you instead took HS2 and built it from Sheffield to Leeds, and Sheffield to Manchester, and to Hull, and Newcastle - to enable the area up here to be better connected then I'd be all for it, and it would still run through my garden but I'd be happy, because that's what we need.

 

We need more *capacity* into London, not faster trains. We need more speed, and perhaps a little more capacity to connect Birmigham northwards together better. We probably need more and better connections to the southewest but I have less knowledge of that.

 

The rail system need an answer for sure, but HS2 to my mind is answering the wrong question.

[llamatron]

Ah yes, nothing like proposing a position by abusing those who disagree with you.

 

Your points are valid regarding our rail infrastructure. However it could perhaps be that HS2 might not be the way to go about it?

 

I've got the HS2 line running through part of my land. I'm staunchly opposed to it because it's a white elephant. All it does is serve to reduce the time to London by a small amount. It's not going to do much for capacity either. It's a vanity project.

 

Now, if you increased the size of platforms and trains to run 12 car carriages, and upgraded the mainlines to London to enable higher speed running, perhaps easing out the sharper curves here and there, perhaps by building an extra dedicated track next to existing ones to enable though trains that would help and help significantly.

 

If you instead took HS2 and built it from Sheffield to Leeds, and Sheffield to Manchester, and to Hull, and Newcastle - to enable the area up here to be better connected then I'd be all for it, and it would still run through my garden but I'd be happy, because that's what we need.

 

We need more *capacity* into London, not faster trains. We need more speed, and perhaps a little more capacity to connect Birmigham northwards together better. We probably need more and better connections to the southewest but I have less knowledge of that.

 

The rail system need an answer for sure, but HS2 to my mind is answering the wrong question.

 

 

It answers the mps request for faster transport to london ignoring cost as they don't pay though!

[Annie Bynnol]

they are only at capacity when they average the journeys out-a lot of trains between birmingham and sheffield are very quiet outside peak times. Its probably because the discounts for off peak just aren't worth it. in fact I get a derby to sheffield train that gets in at 8:20 which I would think is peak and thats always half empty. The one that gets in at 8:00 is also quiet. This should be a very busy line. There are bottle necks so why not invest in an extra line in those places.

 

When a line is " at capacity" it means no more trains can fit onto that stretch of track- not the number of people on the train.

Some bottlenecks can be eased eg the single line at Dore for Manchester but doubling the track will not significantly increase the number trains that can stop at Dore because of the Stockport non-stops/freights. Dore cannot have platforms on the London route and Dronfield cannot have more services for the similar reasons.

The north end of Sheffield station is double track-no more services possible e.g. for Retford or new routes e.g. to Halifax/Bradford/Scarborough/Carlisle.

 

This scenario is repeated all over the network with huge costs for marginal improvement.

 

So if the current users of Sheffield's and SY railways want to see improvement then HS2 will take a significant amount of the intercity traffic off the current railway which will allow for more services to more destinations.

 

HS2 is a great deal more than a shorter journey time to London.

[llamatron]

When a line is " at capacity" it means no more trains can fit onto that stretch of track- not the number of people on the train.

Some bottlenecks can be eased eg the single line at Dore for Manchester but doubling the track will not significantly increase the number trains that can stop at Dore because of the Stockport non-stops/freights. Dore cannot have platforms on the London route and Dronfield cannot have more services for the similar reasons.

The north end of Sheffield station is double track-no more services possible e.g. for Retford or new routes e.g. to Halifax/Bradford/Scarborough/Carlisle.

 

This scenario is repeated all over the network with huge costs for marginal improvement.

 

So if the current users of Sheffield's and SY railways want to see improvement then HS2 will take a significant amount of the intercity traffic off the current railway which will allow for more services to more destinations.

 

HS2 is a great deal more than a shorter journey time to London.

 

in that case "line capacity" is not a suitable method of analysing this. "Train capacity" is though.