Woolwich 'serious incident' 22 May 2013

[natjack]

You didnt really understand the post did you ?go back and read it again in context to the post I replied to

I think that it might be more that Halibut was trying to show us all his misplaced but hilarious wit, because you didn't put a '?' after the 'why' in your first sentence. I don't think it's possible that he really misunderstand, because, acccording to him and his cronies, he's not at all dim.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I'm just as shocked and outraged as anyone else, but I have to agree with catpus, having watched the video clip, and read the reports, there's just something odd about the whole scenario.

[dosxuk]

I wish people would stop using historic Christian actions to somehow compare to what happened yesterday.

 

Why?

 

The reason it comes up everytime these types of incident occurs is because there is always the usual suspects banging on about how Islam is evil, Islam is a cult, Islam "is the religion of peace - ha!", kick out all the Muslims and so on.

 

But whenever something happens by someone who is Christian, there is never any of the same backlash about their religion. And certainly no backlash against other random people who happen to support the same religion, contrary to what we have already been seeing today with innocent Muslims.

 

Christianity has very bloodied hands. Islam does to. This doesn't make either religion right, but if we're going to go on a Muslim witchhunt then we should do the same to all religions, because if you can be guilty be association by supporting the same religion as someone who did wrong, then a large proportion of the country are in the same boat.

[Harleyman]

There's plenty of ways of restricting access to such site, or monitoring who's using them. However, I doubt very much that simple access to a website would radicalise someone to the extent of wanting to become a martyr. Others must be involved, even if it's just discussing the ideas they've found on the dark side of the internet. These people need to be found and talked to.

 

The Army major who gunned own 13 of his fellow soldiers at Fort Hood, Texas later admitted that he had become radicalised through contact with Muslim extremists via the internet.

He was an exception in that he was also a mature, well educated man but young, gullible and poorly educated minds can and often do fall prey to the hate propaganda posted on internet sites.

 

Obviously there's no way to shut it down because if there was it would have already been done

[boyfriday]

Christianity has very bloodied hands. Islam does to. This doesn't make either religion right, but if we're going to go on a Muslim witchhunt then we should do the same to all religions, because if you can be guilty be association by supporting the same religion as someone who did wrong, then a large proportion of the country are in the same boat.

 

[CorkerSWFC]

R.I.P Lee Rigby, over 10 thousand pounds raised already since this awful incident for help for heroes

[Guest]

One last point: in the wake of the Boston Marathon attacks, I documented that the perpetrators of virtually every recent attempted and successful "terrorist" attack against the west cited as their motive the continuous violence by western states against Muslim civilians. It's certainly true that Islam plays an important role in making these individuals willing to fight and die for this perceived just cause (just as Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and nationalism lead some people to be willing to fight and die for their cause). But the proximate cause of these attacks are plainly political grievances: namely, the belief that engaging in violence against aggressive western nations is the only way to deter and/or avenge western violence that kills Muslim civilians.

 

Add the London knife attack on this soldier to that growing list. One of the perpetrators said on camera that "the only reason we killed this man is because Muslims are dying daily" and "we apologize that women had to see this today, but in our lands our women have to see the same." As I've endlessly pointed out, highlighting this causation doesn't remotely justify the acts. But it should make it anything other than surprising. On Twitter last night, Michael Moore sardonically summarized western reaction to the London killing this way:

 

I am outraged that we can't kill people in other counties without them trying to kill us!"

 

Basic human nature simply does not allow you to cheer on your government as it carries out massive violence in multiple countries around the world and then have you be completely immune from having that violence returned.

 

Spot on Glen.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-terrorism-blowback

 

---------- Post added 23-05-2013 at 17:52 ----------

 

Christianity has very bloodied hands. Islam does to. This doesn't make either religion right, but if we're going to go on a Muslim witchhunt then we should do the same to all religions, because if you can be guilty be association by supporting the same religion as someone who did wrong, then a large proportion of the country are in the same boat.

 

Let's also add non religious ideologies responsible for :

 

70,000,000 dead under chairman Mao

• 20,000,000 dead under Stalin

• 2,000,000 no longer exist because of Pol Pot

• 700,000 innocent Iraqi’s in the current occupation

• 500,000 Iraqi children in the 10 year sanctions

 

World War 1 & 2..

[dosxuk]

Obviously there's no way to shut it down because if there was it would have already been done

 

Note I didn't say it was easy to shut down, just that it's easy to restrict or monitor access to such sites.

 

If you shut them down, which isn't that difficult, it just becomes a game of whack-a-mole, which is a pain and becomes challenging. If you can find the sites and get permission you can monitor who's connecting to such sites and what they're saying. Much easier to gather evidence when people are openly talking about something, be that on the darkside or otherwise, than it is for them to be actively hiding and rapidly changing their activities as a result of your own bungled attempts to stop them communicating.

 

If, as the authorities are saying, they've already prevented over 40 attacks of this style, it not only indicates there is a growing network of similar minded people but that the authorities have already got good leads on what they're saying behind closed doors. The fact that this attack happened though shows there are holes in their intelligence which should be filled. Having two live suspects is a great benefit in this respect.

[erebus]

One has to question both mainstream media and government values as possibly hypocritical, as it is fine, just and correct to when western nations continuously kill Muslim civilians, that's not "terrorism", but unfortunate, regardless of the thousands accidentally killed, and as accidents perfectly acceptable.

 

Bur it is very wrong, thus qualifying as acts of terror, when Muslims kill western soldiers, either those that have invaded their country or those stationed abroad, as in the UK itself. We being British have a God given mandate, to kill whoever we wish wherever they happen to reside outside of the UK??? That is surely terrorism too?

 

What was Iraq about? Oil concessions. What was Libya about? Oil concessions. What is Syria about? Oil concessions and the road to Iran oil concessions.

 

What are the wars in Africa about? Access to natural resources for western corporations.

 

So invasion, mass murder under the cloak of helping civilians when examined is a fraud, look at Libya, Iraq. Are the civilians jumping for joy at the wonderful world the west has given them?

 

Is is sad when anyone dies, mothers loose a child, families are distraught, and misery is the only outcome. We in the UK with the USA dispense misery like it was a life saving elixir, and wonder why grief stricken people who feel there is nothing left to do but sacrifice themselves in the name of justice, allow vilification of cultures. Two wrongs do not make a right, but are we right in our foreign policies? What is good for the goose is surely good for the gander?

What happened to fairness, anyone seen it?

[Sierra]

So much for gun control. Isn't there a ban on possession of guns and large knives in the UK?

[Halibut]

So much for gun control. Isn't there a ban on possession of guns and large knives in the UK?

 

Guns, yes. Large knives? Anyone can own a large knife, carrying one in public without a legitimate reason is an offence.