Anna Glypta Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 obviously not enough I see that once again you haven't got a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 So these companies avoid tax so they can do good things with the money they get to keep? Forgive me if I don't agree with that They do it because the current tax laws allow them to do it, the side effect is that shareholders end up with more money to spend in the economy, and they can expand their company because they have more money to invest. ---------- Post added 27-05-2013 at 19:41 ---------- This is what I meant when I asked if it was finally dawning on people. It's been common knowledge on the internet for a long time, but now I think the general public; the conservative (small c) ones who think everything on the internet is rubbish might be beginning to realise that it's not all rubbish actually. These are the same people who thought Occupy were bonkers. Maybe now they see what they were on about. They were bonkers; they let everyone know what everyone already new and didn’t come up with a way to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 They do it because the current tax laws allow them to do it, the side effect is that shareholders end up with more money to spend in the economy, and they can expand their company because they have more money to invest. What if the shareholders are not in the UK. And what if the avoided taxes are funnelled to executives. and what if the company uses the funds to invest in moving productive capacity offshore? What if the funds are used to attack smaller competitors? Get this in your head: the company is not avoiding tax so it can feed the proceeds back into society. It is doing it to entrench its own position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 What if the shareholders are not in the UK. And what if the avoided taxes are funnelled to executives. and what if the company uses the funds to invest in moving productive capacity offshore? What if the funds are used to attack smaller competitors? Get this in your head: the company is not avoiding tax so it can feed the proceeds back into society. It is doing it to entrench its own position. What if the tax you think they should pay is paid to a foreign company or is given in aid to another country. What if it’s given to UK residents and they spend it buying foreign made goods or travelling overseas. Either way it doesn’t help our economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 What if the tax you think they should pay is paid to a foreign company or is given in aid to another country. What if it’s given to UK residents and they spend it buying foreign made goods or travelling overseas. Either way it doesn’t help our economy. None of that justifies aggressive corporate tax avoidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 They do it because the current tax laws allow them to do it, the side effect is that shareholders end up with more money to spend in the economy, and they can expand their company because they have more money to invest. ---------- Post added 27-05-2013 at 19:41 ---------- They were bonkers; they let everyone know what everyone already new and didn’t come up with a way to change it. Really? A lot of people still don't know it. They only read the Daily Mail and watch the X factor. It's a long long process changing people's minds in the face of all the propaganda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 6+ years on from the start of the economic crisis we seem to be no nearer a solution, but the eventual outcome is at least becoming clearer and can no longer be ignored. Globalisation means the big corporations can now avoid tax at will. Almost at the flick of a button they can relocate thier tax liablilities to avoid payment or at least pay the very minimum. Outsourcing work to the country with the lowest paid workers and least regulation follows a similar pattern. Making maximum profit for those at the top is the name of the game no matter what the longterm cost to people and the environment. People like us you mean, who own the majority of these corporations through pension funds? If multinationals don't fully pay their tax, governments will be starved of income, and after taxing their citizens till the pips squeak they will still have an enormous fiscal black hole devoid of funds. Consequently countries will be unable to pay for basic infrastructure etc. resulting in decline and wide spread poverty. Except for the places where they do pay their tax, like Ireland. Surely the only thing that can stop this happening is a multilateral agreement worldwide to level taxes and minimum pay at a common level so that no country has an advantage or is able to offer itself up as a tax haven. The minimum pay makes little sense, the cost of living differs vastly in different parts of the world. Reducing the attractiveness of some of the tax havens is an option. This is unlikely to happen, but how else can multinational companies be persuaded to pay their fair share of tax? There is no such thing as fair, there is just what they are legally obliged to pay. It's no good appealing to their moral conscience as we've seen they don't have one, and it's impossible to legislate effectively as they will always find ways round it. Rubbish, we just need better legislators. This is the 1% and the 99% coming to pass. Governments are complicit and unlikely to do anything to stop it as they see themselves firmly in the 1% camp. So are we simply now in a race to the bottom? Don't be so melodramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Cyclone, your belief about ownership of shares is as flawed as MrSmith's. Please review the following: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pnfc1/share-ownership---share-register-survey-report/2010/stb-share-ownership-2010.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Glypta Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Surely the only thing that can stop this happening is a multilateral agreement worldwide to level taxes and minimum pay at a common level so that no country has an advantage or is able to offer itself up as a tax haven. .. So are you proposing we decrease our pay levels to that of the Sudan or that they give their workers a 5000% pay rise? ---------- Post added 28-05-2013 at 11:53 ---------- Cyclone, your belief about ownership of shares is as flawed as MrSmith's. Please review the following: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pnfc1/share-ownership---share-register-survey-report/2010/stb-share-ownership-2010.html I assumed he was talking about multinationals anyhow, the majority will be listed on overseas exchanges and are as likely to be owned by our pension funds as UK listed companies. Most shares are owned by banks, pension funds, hedge funds, investment groups, other companies, governments or individuals. But it still boils down to the man in the street, even if it's not a street round here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Cyclone, your belief about ownership of shares is as flawed as MrSmith's. Please review the following: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pnfc1/share-ownership---share-register-survey-report/2010/stb-share-ownership-2010.html Which part of that do you think indicates a flaw in my understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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