The game has changed.. is it dawning on people yet?

[MrSmith]

And many of them live without clean water, sanitation, health services, education, suffer endemic preventable disease etc... etc...

 

If you aspire to that move to Mozambique.

 

 

That’s correct, yet here you are complaining about cutting back on some of the service that billions of other people don’t enjoy.

[Anna B]

The outcome of excessive borrowing was always very clear, and if it hadn’t been on the news very few people would have even noticed it. Some people might have a little less to spend each week, which in the grand scream of things is a good thing.

 

---------- Post added 25-05-2013 at 19:41 ----------

 

 

Please, please get over the idea that this crisis is the result of us little people borrowing too much. It's much bigger problem than that. What was on the news was not the whole story, just the 'acceptable' face of what was going on...

 

 

 

The problem is that the vast majority of people don't pay enough tax to cover the cost of the services they use.

 

And much of the tax you do pay is just wasted by government and the public sector.

 

The debt we had after the second world war was equally vast (and we've only just finished paying it off.) This is different.

 

I agree that much of the tax that is paid is wasted by the governments and public sector - but what can we do about it? That's also part of the problem. Democracy is an illusion.

[I1L2T3]

That’s correct, yet here you are complaining about cutting back on some of the service that billions of other people don’t enjoy.

 

We should be aspiring for better services, not worse.

 

---------- Post added 25-05-2013 at 20:07 ----------

 

The outcome of excessive borrowing was always very clear, and if it hadn’t been on the news very few people would have even noticed it. Some people might have a little less to spend each week, which in the grand scream of things is a good thing.

 

---------- Post added 25-05-2013 at 19:41 ----------

 

 

The problem is that the vast majority of people don't pay enough tax to cover the cost of the services they use.

 

And much of the tax you do pay is just wasted by government and the public sector.

 

Where did you get the idea that the services an individual receives should be based on the tax they pay, that they should cover the costs?

[MrSmith]

The debt we had after the second world war was equally vast (and we've only just finished paying it off.) This is different.

 

I agree that much of the tax that is paid is wasted by the governments and public sector - but what can we do about it? That's also part of the problem. Democracy is an illusion.

 

The advantage we had was that we could increase the population to help pay off the debt, that little trick has run out of steam, we are already over populated and expanding the population further causes more problems than it solves.

[Happ Hazzard]

Where did you get the idea that the services an individual receives should be based on the tax they pay, that they should cover the costs?

Well if there are too many people who do not cover the costs than the system is untenable.

[Anna B]

The advantage we had was that we could increase the population to help pay off the debt, that little trick has run out of steam, we are already over populated and expanding the population further causes more problems than it solves.

 

We can never pay off the debt. The interest alone is rising faster then we can pay it. That's the problem.

[MrSmith]

We should be aspiring for better services, not worse.

 

---------- Post added 25-05-2013 at 20:07 ----------

 

 

Where did you get the idea that the services an individual receives should be based on the tax they pay, that they should cover the costs?

 

I didn't get the idea; unaffordable services are inevitable if the vast majority use more than they pay for.

 

The options are pay more tax or cut the money available for each service.

 

---------- Post added 25-05-2013 at 20:16 ----------

 

We can never pay off the debt. The interest alone is rising faster then we can pay it. That's the problem.

 

Yep, and it was caused by spending more than we could afford and all in the hope that future population expansion would support the debt.

[I1L2T3]

Well if there are too many people who do not cover the costs than the system is untenable.

 

No it's not

 

---------- Post added 25-05-2013 at 20:28 ----------

 

I didn't get the idea; unaffordable services are inevitable if the vast majority use more than they pay for.

 

The options are pay more tax or cut the money available for each service.

 

---------- Post added 25-05-2013 at 20:16 ----------

 

 

Yep, and it was caused by spending more than we could afford and all in the hope that future population expansion would support the debt.

 

As you've pointed out before the higher earners pay a big chunk of tax. That is how a progressive taxation system works. Some higher earning individuals might be paying enough tax to fund the services for several dozen families. So what?

 

I'm not against reducing money spent on services. There is clearly too much waste. we could get a lot more for our money. The question is how to make the services more efficient and responsive

[Happ Hazzard]

No it's not

 

How do you figure that out?

[I1L2T3]

How do you figure that out?

 

It's how a progressive tax system works. The idea is not for people to cover the costs of their services but for the tax system to operate optimally to generate revenues that cover expenditure. Many won't cover the costs of the services they use. Some will cover the costs of many people. In addition companies should pay tax.