H Damnation Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 This from Sheffield City Council website indicates it is likely to be a bailliff not a debt collector. Some useful information at last! As I have pointed out a number of times now, this is not some dodgy loan shark or catalogue company trying to chase an unpaid debt! It is the council trying to enforce a Penalty Charge Notice. All PCNs are governed by Parliament. They are legally enforceable and that means that any fines and costs are legally recoverable. If you get a a 'parking fine' from Excel at Centertainments you can sling it in the bin and forget about it. It has no legal status. But if you get a PCN from a police officer, traffic camera or council employee or sub-contractor you have to pay it. If you don't, a Charge Certificate is issued and if it is still not payed an Order of Recovery is made by a Magistrates Court. One of the things this means is that they can seize the car in which the offence was committed, and sell it to pay off the fine. And they don't need to enter your house to do it. In fact in most cases they will clamp it and only release it once the debt is paid. So can we have an end to all this nonsense about 'they can't do this' and 'they can't do that', 'what they are doing is illegal', or 'it's fraud basically' 'rogue debt collectors' or 'the debt isn't real'. If you don't understand the law PLEASE DON'T try and give legal advice to someone on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 More useless advice from someone who seems to know very little about the law. (and presumably also thinks that if you drive in a bus lane and are caught, and fined you should just ignore it!) [/QU Its nothing to do with the Law it it is advice in dealing with rogue debt collectors that I have been on the receiving end of.if the debt was paid in the first place they would not have had these people chasing them.everything I have put down is information freely available to anyone if you want to quote my anything I have stated feel free smart arse. ---------- Post added 02-06-2013 at 15:47 ---------- That would mean that it must have not been paid then. One could assume that - it does however clearly show the procedures for the council and that they don't sell on the debt but apply for bailiff enforcement. The legalities relating to bailiffs are commonly known,they can't do this,they must do that etc etc. However for the recipient this information is pointless as they appear to be up against it. Advice to hide and ignore form some posters is brilliant but it won't remove the debt or prevent further action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Well what a surprise. Come on, you might as well spill the beans so we can pass down some heavy duty Sunday afternoon judgement. Ebay set a debt collection mob on me for owing £20 that I disputed.they rang me up at all times of the day threatening doorstep collections sending silly letters threatening all sorts of ways of bringing about my demise,then the next thing a different mob of debt collectors started hassling me for the same dept.I did a lot of reading up on the subject of bailiffs and debt collectors all of which is freely available to anyone. ---------- Post added 02-06-2013 at 16:10 ---------- One could assume that - it does however clearly show the procedures for the council and that they don't sell on the debt but apply for bailiff enforcement. The legalities relating to bailiffs are commonly known,they can't do this,they must do that etc etc. However for the recipient this information is pointless as they appear to be up against it. Advice to hide and ignore form some posters is brilliant but it won't remove the debt or prevent further action. I say ignore it if it comes from a debt collection mob if it comes from a court or a court appointed bailiff then you must deal with it,a lot of these debt collectors masquerade as court bailiffs you just have to be careful and not sign up for anything they say.another thing the council are sneaky at is sending papers down to the Northampton courts to get judgment against you knowing that most people will not go to Northampton to challenge it.like I say if you pay in the first instance you don't get these people on your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Ebay set a debt collection mob on me for owing £20 that I disputed.they rang me up at all times of the day threatening doorstep collections sending silly letters threatening all sorts of ways of bringing about my demise,then the next thing a different mob of debt collectors started hassling me for the same dept.I did a lot of reading up on the subject of bailiffs and debt collectors all of which is freely available to anyone. But that would be a debt collection for a debt,which could only have gone to a court bailiff if Ebay took you to court for the debt. They didn't they sold the debt,which is common by banks and all sorts of lenders or companies. You still have to resolve the debt and they can't take anything,clamp your car or threaten you - except with court action. A bailiff doesn't need to threaten anything - they have legal rights to the monies demanded - they don't even legally have to listen to any disputes between "you" and the people "you owe". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Some useful information at last! As I have pointed out a number of times now, this is not some dodgy loan shark or catalogue company trying to chase an unpaid debt! It is the council trying to enforce a Penalty Charge Notice. All PCNs are governed by Parliament. They are legally enforceable and that means that any fines and costs are legally recoverable. If you get a a 'parking fine' from Excel at Centertainments you can sling it in the bin and forget about it. It has no legal status. But if you get a PCN from a police officer, traffic camera or council employee or sub-contractor you have to pay it. If you don't, a Charge Certificate is issued and if it is still not payed an Order of Recovery is made by a Magistrates Court. One of the things this means is that they can seize the car in which the offence was committed, and sell it to pay off the fine. And they don't need to enter your house to do it. In fact in most cases they will clamp it and only release it once the debt is paid.as stated above parking fines issude by the council or police are inforcable by law but they still have to go through the court procudure before they can order balif action. So can we have an end to all this nonsense about 'they can't do this' and 'they can't do that', 'what they are doing is illegal', or 'it's fraud basically' 'rogue debt collectors' or 'the debt isn't real'. If you don't understand the law PLEASE DON'T try and give legal advice to someone on the internet. If they are beliefs that came round to the house it must have gone through the procedures to get to the bailiffs stage. but she said that it was paid so either it has not been paid or the people who came round were not bailiffs. ---------- Post added 02-06-2013 at 16:21 ---------- But that would be a debt collection for a debt,which could only have gone to a court bailiff if Ebay took you to court for the debt. They didn't they sold the debt,which is common by banks and all sorts of lenders or companies. You still have to resolve the debt and they can't take anything,clamp your car or threaten you - except with court action. A bailiff doesn't need to threaten anything - they have legal rights to the monies demanded - they don't even legally have to listen to any disputes between "you" and the people "you owe". No they did not take me to court for it just passed it on to debt collectors.it was that that got me reading in to the whole thing about dept collecting and balifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 If they are beliefs that came round to the house it must have gone through the procedures to get to the bailiffs stage. but she said that it was paid so either it has not been paid or the people who came round were not bailiffs. ---------- Post added 02-06-2013 at 16:21 ---------- No they did not take me to court for it just passed it on to debt collectors.it was that that got me reading in to the whole thing about dept collecting and balifs. Thats what i understood you to mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Thats what i understood you to mean Please don't misunderstand me I think people should pay up if they break the law its just the underhanded tactics that some debt collection companies stoop to that gets me riled up,preying on gullible people.in this case I think that the fine has not been paid and the courts and balifs have got involved.there is no way of getting out of that apart from entering into a payment scheme with them, but they must make sure that they are proper court apointed bailiffs that they are dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladystiletto Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Please don't misunderstand me I think people should pay up if they break the law its just the underhanded tactics that some debt collection companies stoop to that gets me riled up,preying on gullible people.in this case I think that the fine has not been paid and the courts and balifs have got involved.there is no way of getting out of that apart from entering into a pament scheme with them, but they must make sure that they are proper court apointed bailiffs that they are dealing with. He understands and accepts he should have paid up or better still not drove in a bus lane in first place and he honestly thinks he has paid it but as it was last year he can't remember, Apparently, these people went to court but he definitely did not receive court papers, he is frantically trying to set up a payment plan but these bailiffs are having none of it and are saying he needs to pay the full amount of £613 by monday or they are going to come back and add another £200 onto it. He cannot get that kind of money together and they refuse to accept installments so where does he turn as the debt is getting higher with each passing day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 He understands and accepts he should have paid up or better still not drove in a bus lane in first place and he honestly thinks he has paid it but as it was last year he can't remember, Apparently, these people went to court but he definitely did not receive court papers, he is frantically trying to set up a payment plan but these bailiffs are having none of it and are saying he needs to pay the full amount of £613 by monday or they are going to come back and add another £200 onto it. He cannot get that kind of money together and they refuse to accept installments so where does he turn as the debt is getting higher with each passing day I don't think they can demand all the money just like that .you really need to check up on their credentials to make sure they are proper court appointed bailiffs,it must be a lot further down the line than what you state,there must have been a lot more correspondence from them before it got to this advanced situation.have you got any letters from them to hand what does it say at the top of the letters is there a company name there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Damnation Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 but she said that it was paid so either it has not been paid or the people who came round were not bailiffs. I think it is now fair to assume that it has not been paid, otherwise they would not have offered a payment scheme to the council. I think it is also fair to assume that he has been ignoring the letters and hoping it would go away. I still find it very hard to believe that it has got to this stage without even one letter or notification being sent to the address. If he was sure he had paid the fine then the time to query it would be 28 days later when he was sent the notification that it had risen to £90, not when the debt collectors are banging on the door a year later. The £200 a day is ******** though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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