Morality of the religious without faith

[janie48]

In which case you are not actually a Quaker and cannot claim to be following that religion. Which I believe was the point I've been trying to make for some time.

Well it doesn't exactly reveal a group of people without diversity does it. In fact as I scrolled down and viewed the link a second time it occurred to me that Christians of other faiths and non practicing ones would share many of the same views as was pointed out some of the Quakers do.

 

So though their religion is a few centuries old now, its ideas aren't that original.

They're are many Christians who are members of the major denominations I know about who don't feel it necessary to agree with every single dogma their religion teaches, and I expect there always has been.

[RootsBooster]

In which case you are not actually a Quaker and cannot claim to be following that religion. Which I believe was the point I've been trying to make for some time.

 

I agree, simply sharing some of the same ideas as Quakers does not make for a religion

[S8 Blade]

Because the churches are the places that hold sessions for the Guides, Brownies, Cubs, Scouts and Rainbows, and the numbers of religous people is declining.

 

Guiding/Scouting groups tend to meet within the church halls, not within an actual church and they usually pay rent to do so. These halls are also used by other groups - dance classes, Slimming World, dog training, photography, toddler groups to name but a few. Does that make all these groups religious too just because they use a building owned by the church?

 

Guiding is also not a religious organisation, and never has been.

[RootsBooster]

Guiding/Scouting groups tend to meet within the church halls, not within an actual church and they usually pay rent to do so. These halls are also used by other groups - dance classes, Slimming World, dog training, photography, toddler groups to name but a few. Does that make all these groups religious too just because they use a building owned by the church?

 

Guiding is also not a religious organisation, and never has been.

 

I think you'll find that the Scouts are though

[jfish1936]

There is no reason at all to have faith in concept 2.

In fact the whole point of the scientific process is to question, do not have faith, apply your own mind to the evidence, gather more evidence, try to prove it all wrong.

I am interested in what way you are a quaker though, if you don't believe in their religious story.

 

 

A very good point: am I a Quaker?

I have that upbringing; I try not to lose my temper with this slow (20 chars/ minute) hotel connection;

 

 

(next evening) Ah! a connection that keeps up with my typing!

I see Quakerism as more concerned with my relations with other people and the world than with the minutiae of "religion". I was brought up on a mission station in Madagascar; I read the Bible through and through; I listened to the patient explanations by my father that there was much in it that needed understanding (e.g. A father should not have his rebellious son stoned to death, despite Leviticus); I came to believe that there was a man, whose name we render as Jesus, who lived and taught; what he was reported as teaching appealed to me.

Whether his mother was immaculately conceived without sin seems irrelevant; but to my RC friend, it really matters.

Whether she remained a perpetual virgin, similarly.

Why did Matthew quote Isaiah from the Greek text rather than Isaiah's original Hebrew?

Does Matthew or Luke have the true story of Jesus' birth and childhood? (one of them got some details wrong)

Whether he really performed miracles such as changing water to wine, and so on.

His teachings remain whether or not these are true.

I believed firmly in non-violence; "religious" people have taught me that they believe in a "God" who wants them to kill; so I now have a "rules of engagement" philosophy; I live by a non-violent creed, but if someone wants to use deadly force I see that they have chosen the rules, and I'll match them.

I live far away from a Quaker meeting, and am getting old for several hours driving.

When in Sheffield, in about a month, I shall make every effort to attend Hartshead meeting on Sunday.

 

But again, am I a Quaker?

[Obelix]

I think you'll find that the Scouts are though

 

I don't think so - values based and spiritual certainly but it is not specifically religious (and I suspect very shortly that the ban on atheist leaders is going to be removed too)

[RootsBooster]

I don't think so - values based and spiritual certainly but it is not specifically religious (and I suspect very shortly that the ban on atheist leaders is going to be removed too)

 

The 3 principles of scouting;

 

-Duty to Self

-Duty to Others

-Duty to God

 

They currently also have to (religiously) make an oath to God at the start of every Scout meeting.

 

 

Definition of religion

noun

 

-[mass noun]

the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:

ideas about the relationship between science and religion

 

-[count noun] a particular system of faith and worship:

the world’s great religions

 

-[count noun] a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion:

consumerism is the new religion

[Obelix]

The 3 principles of scouting;

 

-Duty to Self

-Duty to Others

-Duty to God

 

They currently also have to (religiously) make an oath to God at the start of every Scout meeting.

 

As a Scout Leader I can happily tell you you are wrong on both points.

[flamingjimmy]

As a Scout Leader I can happily tell you you are wrong on both points.

 

I was never compelled to do religion when I was a scout.

 

I was made to salute the Union flag though, that I didn't like.

[RootsBooster]

As a Scout Leader I can happily tell you you are wrong on both points.

You might want to take it up with your superiors then, it's some time since I was a scout so I only have the official website to work from...

(from here)

The Principles of Scouting

-Duty to Self

-Duty to Others

-Duty to God

also...

(from here)

The Scout Promise

 

On my honour, I promise that I will do my best

To do my duty to God and to the Queen,

To help other people

And to keep the Scout Law

 

and also worth noting this...

(from here)

What is spiritual development?

 

Spiritual development implies that leaders and Members should be encouraged to follow the five principles.

 

Develop an inner discipline and training.

Be involved in corporate (group) activities with others.

Understand the world around them.

Help to create a more tolerant and caring society.

Discover the need for prayer and worship, both personal and shared.

These principles are what is meant by spiritual development in The Scout Association and it should be an integral part of every activity, meeting and event.

 

For some reason I always thought you were an atheist, Obelix

I was never compelled to do religion when I was a scout.

 

I was made to salute the Union flag though, that I didn't like.

Good, I don't think anyone should be compelled to do religion.

It may be that the Scout promise isn't compulsory at every meeting but I'm pretty sure it's said at many if not most.