Phanerothyme Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's a common phenomenon. Ostensibly faith destroying occurrence happens (second coming fails to come, world fails to end as predicted, messiah fails to rise from dead as predicted, etc) but faithful are not disabused of their faith, it is counterintuitively stronger than it was before. I'm sure the phenomenon has a name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's a common phenomenon. Ostensibly faith destroying occurrence happens (second coming fails to come, world fails to end as predicted, messiah fails to rise from dead as predicted, etc) but faithful are not disabused of their faith, it is counterintuitively stronger than it was before. I'm sure the phenomenon has a name. I don't think you read the question correctly otherwise your last response reads that people who suddenly lose their faith will have stronger faith. Which is a bit like saying that somebody who suddenly loses the ability to swim will be a stronger swimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's a common phenomenon. Ostensibly faith destroying occurrence happens (second coming fails to come, world fails to end as predicted, messiah fails to rise from dead as predicted, etc) but faithful are not disabused of their faith, it is counterintuitively stronger than it was before. I'm sure the phenomenon has a name. It's not a question about ostensibly faith destroying occurrences though, it's a question about if faith were somehow destroyed. ---------- Post added 04-06-2013 at 17:43 ---------- Well if you feel you need to defend the OP because he decides to start a thread making a mockery of those who believe some of the teachings in the bible while at the same time shrinking away from making the same criticism of the teachings in the Qu'ran and the Torah then be my guest. No, why should I understand anything about the six counties? After all my mother and a grandfather both came from there If you think "the troubles" were all religious based you're up the wrong creek. The IRAs agenda was to end British rule in N.I and eventually hope to unite the six couties with the Irish Republic. There was a strong Marxist revolutionary influence prevalent in the IRA at that time far removed from the beliefs that they were baptised under You need to take a chill pill, nobody attacked your own personal fairy story or asked you to join in with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Grow a backbone? Get all sensitive? Wimp out? Are you okay? You seem to think the thread is some kind of attack on Christianity when in reality I'm questioning the opinion of some atheists, that, the world would be a better place without religion, with regards to the theists who claim that without religion there can be no morality. I've mentioned Christians because the only people I've heard make this claim happened to be Christian (as explained in the OP). However, if it calms you down, I'll humour you and go off topic and answer your demands. I've always been open about my opinions of Islam and Judaism, the same as every other supernatural faith - I've never heard any reasons to actually believe in any of the many gods, I disagree with how many theists force their beliefs on their children, I don't like how many organised religions abuse their power and influence the lives of others, I don't like how groups and individuals do bad things in the name of their god(s). However, I have no problem with personal faith in general, people who believe in gods and go about their business. That's the short version, if you want to start a thread about it feel free to do so and we can continue in more detail. ---------- Post added 04-06-2013 at 11:48 ---------- If the two options of the false dichotomy are the two extremes of the spectrum and the third option is anything inbetween, I don't think that's any kind of "chotomy", it's basically leaving all options open Doesnt it occur to people like you that minding your own business when it comes to belief and none belief is one of the basic concepts of a democratic society and respecting... not knocking... the beliefs and faiths that people choose to live their lives with? No... the world would not be a better place if religion disappeared. The human species will always have something to fight about.... but dream on anyway about your Utopian world without religion ---------- Post added 04-06-2013 at 17:43 ---------- It's not a question about ostensibly faith destroying occurrences though, it's a question about if faith were somehow destroyed. ---------- Post added 04-06-2013 at 17:43 ---------- You need to take a chill pill, nobody attacked your own personal fairy story or asked you to join in with this thread. You need to mind your own business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Doesnt it occur to people like you that minding your own business when it comes to belief and none belief is one of the basic concepts of a democratic society and respecting... not knocking... the beliefs and faiths that people choose to live their lives with?[/Quote] Did he knock anyones belief or merely ask a question - on a discuassion forum? If you're so interested in people minding their own business why did you make commenting on this thread yours? No... the world would not be a better place if religion disappeared. The human species will always have something to fight about.... but dream on anyway about your Utopian world without religion I don't think Roots is saying anything about a utopian world without religion (I welcome correction if I'm wrong) that's not how I read the thread, did I get it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Did he knock anyones belief or merely ask a question - on a discuassion forum? If you're so interested in people minding their own business why did you make commenting on this thread yours? I don't think Roots is saying anything about a utopian world without religion (I welcome correction if I'm wrong) that's not how I read the thread, did I get it wrong? Because I am wondering why whenever people who start a discussion about religion (mostly atheists) always focus on the bible and make fun of the teachings in that book. Why not do the same for the Qu'ran or the Torah? Or are people over there too intimidated not to say anything negative about the latter two Yeah i know I'm annoying but I will continue to get my oar in whenever these threads come up again. There are no sacred cows in this world. Everything is open for discussion/criticism Talk about religion?.. Encompass the whole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Because I am wondering why whenever people who start a discussion about religion (mostly atheists) always focus on the bible and make fun of the teachings in that book. Why not do the same for the Qu'ran or the Torah? Or are people over there too intimidated not to say anything negative about the latter two Yeah i know I'm annoying but I will continue to get my oar in whenever these threads come up again. There are no sacred cows in this world. Everything is open for discussion/criticism Talk about religion?.. Encompass the whole He didn't focus on the Bible, he was talking about his own experience. I always criticize the Qur'an, it's generally met with Muslims going quiet and trying to change the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Doesnt it occur to people like you that minding your own business when it comes to belief and none belief is one of the basic concepts of a democratic society and respecting... not knocking... the beliefs and faiths that people choose to live their lives with? No... the world would not be a better place if religion disappeared. The human species will always have something to fight about.... but dream on anyway about your Utopian world without religion What the hell are you ranting about? I don't think the world would be better without religion, quite the opposite actually. Where did you get this notion from? Where have I knocked anyone's beliefs? I haven't (unlike you, having a go at Jehovah's witnesses) Have you actually took any notice of the the OP at all or have you just waded in to the thread, assuming that it's something you will be angry about, and randomly attacked everyone on here? I think so. You need to mind your own business He is doing, this IS his business and anyone else's who wants to discuss the topic openly. You're the one who's barged in and wrongly attacked everyone, you should take a piece of your own advice. Seriously Harley, get a grip, you're making yourself look more of a fool than ever before. Oh and this... Doesnt it occur to people like you that minding your own business when it comes to belief and none belief is one of the basic concepts of a democratic society ...democratic society, I do not think it means what you think it means As far as I'm aware, discussing others' beliefs does not go against the fundamentals of democracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I don't think you read the question correctly otherwise your last response reads that people who suddenly lose their faith will have stronger faith. Which is a bit like saying that somebody who suddenly loses the ability to swim will be a stronger swimmer You posited thus It's not necessarily impossible, an event could take place, so horrific that all true Christians lose faith, although I very much doubt it I maintain that there is no such event because of the phenomenon I have described above. For those that did lose their faith, it would not be universally instantaneous either. Of those that did instantaneously lose their faith, I suspect they'd carry on much as before; self-restraint is not so much a cognitive decision as something that is reinforced by social contact with others, in order to establish mutual mores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 (from the OP) I mention the Bible because I've only ever heard the morality claim from Christians Because I am wondering why whenever people who start a discussion about religion (mostly atheists) always focus on the bible and make fun of the teachings in that book. I haven't made fun of the bible. In case you still don't understand... No, it explains clearly in the OP why I mention the Bible. You should try reading it fully (the OP) I've mentioned Christians because the only people I've heard make this claim happened to be Christian (as explained in the OP). Why not do the same for the Qu'ran or the Torah? Because we're not talking about holy books, we're talking about morality and faith. The question in the OP applies to anyone from any faith who makes the morality claim, again (in case you still don't get it) I've only ever heard this claim come from (some) Christians. Or are people over there too intimidated not to say anything negative about the latter two [/b]Yeah i know I'm annoying but I will continue to get my oar in whenever these threads come up again. There are no sacred cows in this world. Everything is open for discussion/criticism Talk about religion?.. Encompass the whole You're not annoying, just baffling as to why you'd keep humiliating yourself like this ---------- Post added 04-06-2013 at 22:56 ---------- You posited thus I maintain that there is no such event because of the phenomenon I have described above. For those that did lose their faith, it would not be universally instantaneous either. Of those that did instantaneously lose their faith, I suspect they'd carry on much as before; self-restraint is not so much a cognitive decision as something that is reinforced by social contact with others, in order to establish mutual mores. It says in the OP they lose their faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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