melthebell Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 What do you think of his conviction for headbutting a nazi for giving a sieg heil salute? the far right always fall out and resort to violence, nothing new, gone on forever, they cant get on with others they cant get on with themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 the far right always fall out and resort to violence, nothing new, gone on forever, they cant get on with others they cant get on with themselves My understanding was the incident happened after he had been trying to remove far right people from the EDL, he had given a speech naming some names of nazis who were not welcome in the edl one of whom was present and started loudly seig heiling and giving a hitler salute and moved aggressively towards him. Mr Lennon/Robinson/whatever at that point dropped him with a head butt. Now not the sort of behaviour one should endorse but under the circumstances I think it's fair to say that at the very least 90% of a group like UAF would regard a member behaving in that manner as a hero and not a criminal. Obviously each to their own and some people would find headbutting nazi's and breaching their "human right" to give nazi salutes very offensive. I don't think it would be a very large percentage of society though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 My understanding was the incident happened after he had been trying to remove far right people from the EDL They have no membership. How can he remove someone who cannot join? The upside of having no formal membership is that he can claim that the EDL don't have fascist racist members, but he cannot have his cake and eat it. If there are no formal members, there is nothing to stop racists joining him every step of the way. Anyone can go along and be involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 My understanding was the incident happened after he had been trying to remove far right people from the EDL, he had given a speech naming some names of nazis who were not welcome in the edl one of whom was present and started loudly seig heiling and giving a hitler salute and moved aggressively towards him. Mr Lennon/Robinson/whatever at that point dropped him with a head butt. Now not the sort of behaviour one should endorse but under the circumstances I think it's fair to say that at the very least 90% of a group like UAF would regard a member behaving in that manner as a hero and not a criminal. Obviously each to their own and some people would find headbutting nazi's and breaching their "human right" to give nazi salutes very offensive. I don't think it would be a very large percentage of society though. i hate nazis, ive fought against neo nazis in the street, my grandad fought against nazis in the war perfectly acceptable behaviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 They have no membership. How can he remove someone who cannot join? The upside of having no formal membership is that he can claim that the EDL don't have fascist racist members, but he cannot have his cake and eat it. If there are no formal members, there is nothing to stop racists joining him every step of the way. Anyone can go along and be involved. My understanding is he read of a list of names of neo-nazis who had attended edl demonstrations and had given nazi salutes said they were not welcome at any edl event. One who was present was the subject of a headbut having kicked off as a result while giving nazi salutes/seig heils. I'm not saying the guy has done everything possible to exclude nazis from edl events because I'm not involved so only know what i've seen evidence of but that seems a pretty good way to tackle the issue (naming and shaming not the headbutt, though I can't honestly say I have an issue with it under the circs.) When we talk about can't have it both ways doing him down for nazis turning up at his demos and then branding him a thuggish criminal when he bans them and nuts one who gets in his face seig heiling as a result of the ban seems a bit like he can't win in some peoples views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 My understanding is he read of a list of names of neo-nazis who had attended edl demonstrations and had given nazi salutes said they were not welcome at any edl event. Where've you got this narrative from? Never heard it before. I'm happy branding him a thuggish criminal when he does thuggish things and commits crimes. I suppose that I'm easily pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Where've you got this narrative from? Never heard it before. I'm happy branding him a thuggish criminal when he does thuggish things and commits crimes. I suppose that I'm easily pleased. From his account and the reporting from the trial. Do you have an alternative account that the CPS is unaware of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Are you suggesting that this headbutting somehow proves he isn't a thuggish hatefreak Andygardener? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Are you suggesting that this headbutting somehow proves he isn't a thuggish hatefreak Andygardener? I'm not suggesting he isn't a man capable of violence , he clearly is. As are the armed forces detailed to deal with the islamist enemy so being a bit handy is not a bad thing. When we come to "hatefreak" what is that? That sounds like a self indulgent UAF phrase to describe anyone without funky hair or a hat adorning it knitted from their own sustainably harvested pubes and died with natural plant extracts into the colour of the palestinian "flag". Has he acted thuggishly, yes clearly. Is he a "hatefreak" no, I have seen no evidence of this. Does he need to be engaged with, absolutely. Lets talk to him, let have the debates because trust me trying to marginalise this guy will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Is he a "hatefreak" no, I have seen no evidence of this. Does he need to be engaged with, absolutely. Lets talk to him, let have the deabtes because trust me trying to marginalise this guy will not work. Why should we engage with a violent criminal who promotes hate? What would you like to debate with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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