Local bands for tramlines

[Moosey]

 

It is a real job when you're hiring rehearsal space, spend many hours learning and rehearsing, lugging amplifiers and PAs in and out of venues, and I agree when you get to a stage when you can ask a fee it's VERY important to put a monetary value on yourself and your time and not compromise. But if this is your sole reason for picking up an instrument/writing/singing and would do it under NO OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES then maybe you've lost track of why you started in the first place.

 

If the only reason you're going to use your voice/instrument is for money may I suggest a taking up a hobby you enjoy?

 

See this is where I partially agree with you. It is a real job, given the amount of equipment, time etc, therefore I wouldn't do it for free (with the exception of for charity).

 

The reason we play is because it's our job (second job in my case). It's not a hobby. It's a job, and we treat it as that. We never let venues down, don't play after a skinful, are always on time etc - we're a pro band. Not that others aren't but we very much are.

 

I think you allude to that as a reason why being paid is necessary, and I'd agree. I still think new bands deserve paying though, whether originals or covers. Yes, they'll be paid less, likely significantly so, but they should get their petrol fees, some beers etc, and shouldn't have to bring a PA, so they don't need a van. Chucking them a tenner each (which they'll likely spend in the bar anyway) is the right thing to do in my view.

[Lockjaw]

See this is where I partially agree with you. It is a real job, given the amount of equipment, time etc, therefore I wouldn't do it for free (with the exception of for charity).

 

The reason we play is because it's our job (second job in my case). It's not a hobby. It's a job, and we treat it as that. We never let venues down, don't play after a skinful, are always on time etc - we're a pro band. Not that others aren't but we very much are.

 

I think you allude to that as a reason why being paid is necessary, and I'd agree. I still think new bands deserve paying though, whether originals or covers. Yes, they'll be paid less, likely significantly so, but they should get their petrol fees, some beers etc, and shouldn't have to bring a PA, so they don't need a van. Chucking them a tenner each (which they'll likely spend in the bar anyway) is the right thing to do in my view.

 

Two quickies:

 

As long as people like Munch & Julia are willing to play for free, some venues will continue to see bands as a free resource.

 

Not all the city centre pubs expect bands to play for nowt during Tramlines.

 

---------- Post added 24-06-2013 at 10:00 ----------

 

If the only reason you're going to use your voice/instrument is for money may I suggest a taking up a hobby you enjoy?

 

Why? Plenty of other people use their skills purely as a source of income; why shouldn't musicians? Why do you consider making music to be, exclusively, a hobby?

[snookerjulia]

Two quickies:

 

As long as people like Munch & Julia are willing to play for free, some venues will continue to see bands as a free resource.

 

Not all the city centre pubs expect bands to play for nowt during Tramlines.

 

---------- Post added 24-06-2013 at 10:00 ----------

 

 

Why? Plenty of other people use their skills purely as a source of income; why shouldn't musicians? Why do you consider making music to be, exclusively, a hobby?

 

I suppose the point I was making here is I'm not lucky enough to make a living out of performing music, I have a day job to pay the bills, I don't particularly enjoy going to work and if I became solvent enough would pack it in immediately without regret.

A long time ago I picked up an instrument out of love for music, a desire and challenge to learn to play it, it gave me pleasure, nothing more, it never even crossed my mind I could one day earn money from it. Now I know it's possible to earn a little through my passion also and when I get handed cash for a gig I consider myself lucky and thankful I'd put the work in and got paid for my 'hobby'. I still play at home, try to master more difficult and technical music and will never stop, it's not a chore.

Those using their skills purely as a source of income and require recompense each and every time they pick up their tools are just earning a living and not doing what they do primarily for pleasure, nothing wrong with this, I use a set of skills in my day job that not everybody possesses but primarily so I have an income and routine in my life, it's a chore.

So I suppose after all my waffle I see your point, but mine is a personal thing, I listen to/play music primarily out of pleasure and a kind of gratification that I value more than money, never a 'job'. Those who only play/sing for money value it on the same level as a day job they stop doing when they get home/retire/become solvent enough.

 

This is not a slight on those that do music for a living, I can't criticise someone making a living or say they shouldn't, there's just those who like it anyway regardless of money reward and those who don't.

 

Either that or they're trying to kid us and themselves on it's labour. Perhaps I'm the only person that feels it's not labour, if that is the case then I'm in a minority of one and don't really have a point at all.

[Lockjaw]

I suppose the point I was making here is I'm not lucky enough to make a living out of performing music, I have a day job to pay the bills, I don't particularly enjoy going to work and if I became solvent enough would pack it in immediately without regret.

A long time ago I picked up an instrument out of love for music, a desire and challenge to learn to play it, it gave me pleasure, nothing more, it never even crossed my mind I could one day earn money from it. Now I know it's possible to earn a little through my passion also and when I get handed cash for a gig I consider myself lucky and thankful I'd put the work in and got paid for my 'hobby'. I still play at home, try to master more difficult and technical music and will never stop, it's not a chore.

Those using their skills purely as a source of income and require recompense each and every time they pick up their tools are just earning a living and not doing what they do primarily for pleasure, nothing wrong with this, I use a set of skills in my day job that not everybody possesses but primarily so I have an income and routine in my life, it's a chore.

So I suppose after all my waffle I see your point, but mine is a personal thing, I listen to/play music primarily out of pleasure and a kind of gratification that I value more than money, never a 'job'. Those who only play/sing for money value it on the same level as a day job they stop doing when they get home/retire/become solvent enough.

 

This is not a slight on those that do music for a living, I can't criticise someone making a living or say they shouldn't, there's just those who like it anyway regardless of money reward and those who don't.

 

Either that or they're trying to kid us and themselves on it's labour. Perhaps I'm the only person that feels it's not labour, if that is the case then I'm in a minority of one and don't really have a point at all.

 

Great post.

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said there and your "musical journey" sounds similar to mine.

 

Now, though, imagine you are a decorator and some musicians in your area start doing decorating jobs for free because it's their hobby...

[snookerjulia]

If someone wants to decorate for a hobby I wish them all the best, how long before the novelty wears off?

Maybe one day I'll be a little more like you, it's an attitude I totally understand but don't just feel. The paid gigs are more attractive but I'll do the free ones only at the venues that offer the hospitality, if I wait to make a living or get rich I'd be playing less. Not my agenda but I'm aware and accept it's fine for others.

Sorry I enjoy it too much.

[Lockjaw]

If someone wants to decorate for a hobby I wish them all the best, how long before the novelty wears off?

 

You appear to miss my point. It's not about novelty or hobbies; it's about somebody coming along and doing the job upon which you base your livelihood, for free.

 

A professional musician is just that and if some hobbyist comes along and offers their services for free then they are reducing the prospects of the professional.

 

This is why people such as Olivia above have no qualms asking people to :

• load up the expensive kit they've paid for,
  
• drive it to the venue,
  
• set it up & prepare,
  
• perform the music they've spent many hours of their lives rehearsing,
  
• using expensive instruments they've paid for and then, when everyone has had their fun,
  
• dismantle the kit,
  
• load it up,
  
• take it home and
  
• unload it
  

... all for free!

 

6 or more hours work - can you think of any other service provider who gets treated like that?

 

What do you think, for instance, the farming industry would look like if a significant amount of hobbyist allotment holders, who love their time in the mud, started offering free produce to anyone who asked?

 

Maybe one day I'll be a little more like you,

 

Interesting ... What is "like me"?

 

 

The paid gigs are more attractive but I'll do the free ones only at the venues that offer the hospitality, if I wait to make a living or get rich I'd be playing less.

 

Again, it's not necessarily about making a living or getting rich; simply being paid a reasonable amount for a service you are providing.