Harleyman Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Seriously? You think he's going to risk his life and liberty for the sake of a petty personal grudge? Throw away his career, squash and chance of having a normal relationship with his friends and family, force him to flee his own country, etc.? How is that more believable than what he said himself? What exactly about his version of what led him to become a whistle-blower do you find unbelievable? ---------- Post added 01-07-2013 at 20:50 ---------- ...and tell me, who are the ones who are preventing him from leaving Russia, is it the Russian government or the US government? Sure. He's a person dominated by feelings of neurosis coupled with a guilt complex. Any two bit psychiatrist would tell you that. Probably with the exception of possibly Ecuador no country really wants him as an asylum seeker but that's what he bargained for and that's what he got. If he's so steadfast in his beliefs and really wants to further his image among his admirers he should return and face the music instead of skulking in a country where everything he condemned in the first place is a work of art there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Sure. He's a person dominated by feelings of neurosis coupled with a guilt complex. Any two bit psychiatrist would tell you that. Probably with the exception of possibly Ecuador no country really wants him as an asylum seeker but that's what he bargained for and that's what he got. If he's so steadfast in his beliefs and really wants to further his image among his admirers he should return and face the music instead of skulking in a country where everything he condemned in the first place is a work of art there I don't know think his admirers are going to admire him for being in a position where he loses his liberty, and loses the freedom to expose more wrongdoing by governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Sure. He's a person dominated by feelings of neurosis coupled with a guilt complex. Any two bit psychiatrist would tell you that.Can you find me some examples please, because he came across as perfectly sane in the interview's he has given. Also, I'd love it if you could try to answer my other question: What exactly about his version of what led him to become a whistle-blower do you find unbelievable? "When you're in positions of privileged access like a systems administrator for the sort of intelligence community agencies, you're exposed to a lot more information on a broader scale then the average employee and because of that you see things that may be disturbing but over the course of a normal person's career you'd only see one or two of these instances. When you see everything you see them on a more frequent basis and you recognize that some of these things are actually abuses. And when you talk to people about them in a place like this where this is the normal state of business people tend not to take them very seriously and move on from them." "But over time that awareness of wrongdoing sort of builds up and you feel compelled to talk about. And the more you talk about the more you're ignored. The more you're told its not a problem until eventually you realize that these things need to be determined by the public and not by somebody who was simply hired by the government." If he's so steadfast in his beliefs and really wants to further his image among his admirers he should return and face the music instead of skulking in a country where everything he condemned in the first place is a work of art thereHe cannot be guaranteed a fair trial in your country, as evidenced by the fact that you have already written off eveything he's said and branded him a neurotic liar and a traitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I don't know think his admirers are going to admire him for being in a position where he loses his liberty, and loses the freedom to expose more wrongdoing by governments. It's only a matter of time before Snowden crosses the line from being a crusading whistleblower.... as some claim... to that of a full blown, out and out traitor. The Russian intelligence service have dealt with far smarter, more astute and less naive people than he before. He's putty in their hands They'll milk him like a prize dairy cow poor sucker and he wont even realize what he's done ---------- Post added 01-07-2013 at 20:48 ---------- Can you find me some examples please, because he came across as perfectly sane in the interview's he has given. Also, I'd love it if you could try to answer my other question: What exactly about his version of what led him to become a whistle-blower do you find unbelievable? "When you're in positions of privileged access like a systems administrator for the sort of intelligence community agencies, you're exposed to a lot more information on a broader scale then the average employee and because of that you see things that may be disturbing but over the course of a normal person's career you'd only see one or two of these instances. When you see everything you see them on a more frequent basis and you recognize that some of these things are actually abuses. And when you talk to people about them in a place like this where this is the normal state of business people tend not to take them very seriously and move on from them." "But over time that awareness of wrongdoing sort of builds up and you feel compelled to talk about. And the more you talk about the more you're ignored. The more you're told its not a problem until eventually you realize that these things need to be determined by the public and not by somebody who was simply hired by the government." He cannot be guaranteed a fair trial in your country, as evidenced by the fact that you have already written off eveything he's said and branded him a neurotic liar and a traitor. I'm pretty sure I wont be called to judge him. I'm a retired construction worker without any experience in a court of law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suetonius Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 i think he is a hero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lectrospin Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 i think he is a hero Agree, we need people who are prepared to expose our corrupt governments and there nefarious activities and lies. Hopefully more people will be prepared to whistle blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrence Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Most people realize that any future terrorist attack will be aimed at America, at any city. Yeah sure, the NSA bugged the European Parliament and embassies because of terrorists. Pull the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsuchan Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 110,000 people being what percentage of a population of 300,000,000? After Obama won the last election there were around 85,000 petitions sent to the White House from Alabama requesting that the state be granted sesssion from the union Small numbers indeed. Snowdon is a whining traitor who probably had some private issue going on at work maybe with a supervisor and decided to get back the way he thought best. Just like Private Bradley Manning of the army who was in a positon of trust in his duties and downloaded a lot of Assanges Wiki Leaks, another misfit with a personal grudge to settle. Snowden belongs to Russia now. His passport is cancelled and he cant travel anywhere They'll probably kiss his backside and get as much info from him as they can and then give him asylum and promptly forget about him. Putin played a bad move in chess though. There will be long term damage to US-Russia relations and was Snowden worth it? Ok, well if you think 110,000 is insignificant, we're not likely to make futher progress in our discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 You can't see why non-Americans, outside the US, might be interested in the story? It all depends on how that interest is applied. The "Only in America" connotation is almost always able to be applied to countries like yours as well. We're not unique and not much interested in what goes on elsewhere either unless it really concerns us. You miss the point. Harleyman said that PRISM as an American system was only spying on him, and he's happy for that to happen, so all us nosy people in Sheffield should but out and leave them to it as it doesn't affect us. It seemed to completely escape him that the system was set up to spy on us as non-American's, it most certainly does affect us and as such we're entitled to hold an opinion. The equivalent would be us telling you and Harleyman to be quiet if it comes out that GCHQ have set up a system to spy on American citizens with no oversight by the US authorities because it doesn't concern you and we're happy for it to carry on. Seriously? You think he's going to risk his life and liberty for the sake of a petty personal grudge? Throw away his career, squash any chance of having a normal relationship with his friends and family, force him to flee his own country, etc.? How is that more believable than what he said himself? What exactly about his version of what led him to become a whistle-blower do you find unbelievable? ---------- Post added 01-07-2013 at 20:50 ---------- ...and tell me, who are the ones who are preventing him from leaving Russia, is it the Russian government or the US government? Yeah sure, the NSA bugged the European Parliament and embassies because of terrorists. Pull the other one. I would've thought that most countries would've been aware that even their allies might 'peek' from time to time. Provided it's done surreptitiously, they may not treat it as a problem. But when it's plastered all over the front page of a Newspaper they may not be so happy to ignore it. My local (Munich area) Newspaper has a number of articles this morning, most of them revolving around a potential spat between Merkel and the US. It appears that Prism has been used to spy on Germany and the Germans are not at all amused. Obama has a lot of diplomatic damage to repair. There's another (very short) article which suggests that Snowden has been offered (and has accepted) asylum in Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 There's another (very short) article which suggests that Snowden has been offered (and has accepted) asylum in Russia Not any more although the Russians are so devious they may change their tune a few more times yet. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/edward-snowden-nsa-withdraws-asylum-russia-putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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