WeX Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 The guy is a hero. He saw what he thought was wrong and exposed it. Its a shame he is the exception rather than the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 You're the one who is being naive. I know all the things you mentioned. But this ain't Tesco tracking your purchases. It's something else. Think about it. It would certainly feed/inflame the fantasies of the paranoidal and conspiracy theorists and those with persecution complexes but if you've nothing to hide and just doing your normal thing what the big deal? How else could future terrorist attacks be foiled other than by monitoring phone calls and E-mails? That's how 90 percent of them are planned. We dont have spies anymore sending secret messages by courier pigeon or morse code Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 He yet another whistleblower putting information in the public zone which he believes they have a right to know. Let's remember that the MP expenses scandal, which led to a fair few resignations and one or two instances of criminal charges would never have happened without a whistleblower. All we, the public, would have seen is the expenses with all the "sensitive" bits blacked out. Crucial details missing and blacked out from MPs' published expenses But of course this instance is completely different. In one case, we were being kept in the dark about something whereas here, information was being withheld. Totally different! As Sir Humphrey in Yes Prime Minister put it: "The Official Secrets Act isn't to protect secrets – it's to protect officials." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANAdeLdF Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Snowden might think he's a crusader who has suddenly achieved some earth shaking wake up call but in reality he's a little whinger and a traitor who got a chip on his shoulder over some work related issue A traitor to whom ? The US constitution ? Let the man speak for himself: "The N.S.A. has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your emails or your wife’s phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards." Does that sound constitutional to you ? Wholesale snooping without targeting criminals by going through the appropriate legal channels ? Is Snowden a traitor for bringing these practices to the public's attention ? If the revelations are so trivial because we all know it's going on anyway, why is the US political establishment getting so hysterical right now ? Shouldn't their response sound as relaxed as yours ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Dont worry CCTV has been watching you for years already. How do you think the 7/7 bombers in London were so quickly tracked down ? Tracked down? They blew themselves to pieces. They also left videos behind explaining why they did what they did. The guy is a hero. He saw what he thought was wrong and exposed it. Its a shame he is the exception rather than the norm. For once I agree with my leftie friend WeX. We need more people like this to expose what governments are getting up to. What tickled me most about this though is that the Americans have charged a spy they employ themselves with spying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANAdeLdF Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 What tickled me most about this though is that the Americans have charged a spy they employ themselves with spying. Along with the old chestnut, "Revelations about our spying on the Chinese will trivialise their rotten system, which shows no respect for its citizens". Unlike the NSA, of course. It's the same old song: one rule for us, another one for everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 A traitor to whom ? The US constitution ? Let the man speak for himself: "The N.S.A. has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your emails or your wife’s phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards." Does that sound constitutional to you ? Wholesale snooping without targeting criminals by going through the appropriate legal channels ? Is Snowden a traitor for bringing these practices to the public's attention ? If the revelations are so trivial because we all know it's going on anyway, why is the US political establishment getting so hysterical right now ? Shouldn't their response sound as relaxed as yours ? So let me ask YOU. What alternative measures exist to counter possible future terrorist acts? Everybody's yelling about what a hero Snowden is while ignoring the real issue here. If you lost someone to an act of terror would you be demanding an explanation as why this was allowed to happen, why security measures werent in place to prevent it? ---------- Post added 23-06-2013 at 20:29 ---------- Along with the old chestnut, "Revelations about our spying on the Chinese will trivialise their rotten system, which shows no respect for its citizens". Unlike the NSA, of course. It's the same old song: one rule for us, another one for everyone else. Conveniently forgetting of course that China is not a target for terrorist attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 So let me ask YOU. What alternative measures exist to counter possible future terrorist acts? Everybody's yelling about what a hero Snowden is while ignoring the real issue here. If you lost someone to an act of terror would you be demanding an explanation as why this was allowed to happen, why security measures werent in place to prevent it? ---------- Post added 23-06-2013 at 20:29 ---------- Conveniently forgetting of course that China is not a target for terrorist attacks Can you PM me your credit card number please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Can you PM me your credit card number please. You didnt answer the question. Again, what alternative measures are there to gather information on suspected terrorist activities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrence Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 HERO. I hope his actions stop the slide towards the total surveillance state. ---------- Post added 23-06-2013 at 21:53 ---------- what alternative measures are there to gather information on suspected terrorist activities? Agencies on both sides of the Atlantic have had the legal means to access the communications of named suspects for a long time. Snowden revealed, amongst other things, a programme for intercepting and storing unimaginably massive amounts of communications in real time, without a warrant and without being directed at anyone in particular. Spying on everyone is very different to spying on suspected terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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