Edward Snowden; Hero or villain?

[Harleyman]

It's sad because its so close to the truth.

 

---------- Post added 05-07-2013 at 12:28 ----------

 

 

Your not even from there!

Your sounding quite a lot like a certain EDL member recently.

The country your so quick to blindly defend is made up of immigrants like you and those Venezualans who ARE your country and who create the billions of dollars that flow out of it.

 

Whose knocking immigrants? We couldn't do without them. We'd be sunk if every Mexican born immigrant in California alone just packed up and went home. They are hard working people also and essential to the economy.

 

From all the bitching and moaning I read all the time on the forum about how lazy immigrants in the UK are and just there for the benefits I think we here must be far more fortunate

 

---------- Post added 05-07-2013 at 15:54 ----------

 

You really did devolve into an American.

 

Do you think the trillions of dollars America owes grows on tree`s. China owns America.

 

 

 

 

 

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm

 

And what are all the Americans going to do when the oil starts drying up or getting ludicrously expensive. They are going to be using electric cars which use batteries. The batteries that contain a little thing called lithium.

 

Oh yes I forgot Bolivia owns the largest lithium reserves on the planet and an estimated 50-70% of all lithium on earth.

 

There's enough untapped oil here to last for a hundred years but it's not allowed to be drilled because the environmentalists who are almost a political party unto themselves wont have it.

All electric cars will never make it. They're useless anywhere where it snows. No traction. Even hybrids come up somewhat short in that respect but they sell very well in parts of the country which have mild, snow free winters

 

If China owns America's debt then the USA in turn owns all their factories. Without the US market 70 percent of them would be out of business

[LeMaquis]

Duh! It does have a government dont it? It's seated in a city called Brussels. (look that up. It's in a country which has another big city called Antwerp) They speak French and also Flemish.

 

Did you have to have a lobotomy to get your Green Card? The EU Parliament is situated in Brussels and Strasburg and doesn't mean that the EU is a country. It's a supranational institution comprised of 28 nation states. There are also subnational governments like Catalonia but it isn't a country.

 

You see things in very simple black and white terms and as such misunderstand anything more complicated than the mundane. The CIA should get their money back.

[Harleyman]

Did you have to have a lobotomy to get your Green Card? The EU Parliament is situated in Brussels and Strasburg and doesn't mean that the EU is a country. It's a supranational institution comprised of 28 nation states. There are also subnational governments like Catalonia but it isn't a country.

 

You see things in very simple black and white terms and as such misunderstand anything more complicated than the mundane. The CIA should get their money back.

 

Where did I ever say the EU was a country? Maybe you oughta get your head out of that place where the sun dont shine. Let me repeat it once more. In negotiations with the US on Free Trade, representatives from countries who are EU members will negotiate as a team with their American counterparts. Therefore it will in effect be a deal between the EU and the US Does that now make it clearer??

 

You're very fond of insinuating that I'm some kind of CIA but what about you?

 

An embittered old Marxist perhaps? I dont think I'm far wrong there. 1989 must have been a very bad year for your lot :hihi:

[dosxuk]

Where did I ever say the EU was a country?

 

Right here -

 

The EU does it's own share of spying on it's friends and none friends, dont kid yourself. Every country does it.

[Harleyman]

Right here -

 

You misread then. When I said EU it saved time typing up France, Germany, UK etc. The EU is composed of some 20 nations is it not ? and the prinicpal EU nations equipped with eavesdropping technology do indeed spy on each other as well as countries such as China, Russia and of course the US.

 

The additonal sentence "every country does it" meant that countires outside the EU bloc carry out spying operations also

[buck]

Would you like to explain what actually happened then? Virtually all the sources I've seen state the aircraft was forced to land in Austria as they couldn't get clearance to continue any further because the countries they would have to fly over all barred permission because of rumours Mr Snowden was on board.

I'm not certain about what happened and I dare say neither do you. But of course it must be true, it was on Youtube!! The man is a traitor, enough said. Nobody wants him except Sheffield and us, and for very different reasons.

 

---------- Post added 05-07-2013 at 19:50 ----------

 

A better analogy would be for the Speaker to have questioned why Jefferson had not ordered the private letters of every US citizen to be intercepted and checked... which would not have been accepted by the public and, I believe, is a federal offence in the US to this day? But apparently this is only important if you do it to US citizens?

 

Let me tell you that this US strategy is damaging its friendships. When it behavior means former friends are less inclined to do business with it, when they are less inclined to stand at its side when confronted by an enemy, then the US has isolated itself and made itself significantly less secure.

 

Listen to your friends... you have behaved badly and we don't like you very much at the moment. Carry on making excuses for your bad behaviour, carry on treating us different to how you would members of your own family and we won't be friends any more.

If this is a posting by a friend, then I'll stick to the usual SF crap from our enemies. At least they're a joke.

 

---------- Post added 05-07-2013 at 20:02 ----------

 

El Al flight 1862 was a bit messy though. But that's ok, it wasnt a passenger plane. I'm sure the 40+ that died feel comforted by that

I could be wrong, but I don't think I ever heard of a major accident on Qantas. I can imagine everybody is now leaping for Wikipedia, just to prove me wrong, enjoy. As for this Snowden creep, he's had his fifteen minutes of infamy, let him now rot away in some far distant place, never to return to the land of the free except in cuffs.

[flamingjimmy]

Weird how the people from the US on this forum seem to have so little respect for Jefferson, Franklin et al.

 

It's as if almost the they are just sticking their fingers in their ears and saying 'no the constitution doesn't mean that' and pretending that the authors of the declaration and constitution weren't vehemently against this sort of surveillance.

 

They say that the founding fathers couldn't have imagined the technologies we have, and despite the fact that they were adamant that people's letters and effects should never be examined and recorded by the state, it's totally ok for the state to monitor people's emails and phonecalls and internet usage, because... reasons... erm.... SCARY TERRORISTS!!!

 

Yet when it comes to the second amendment who cares that the founding fathers couldn't possibly have envisioned a world where relatively cheap high powered fully automatic rifles would be widely available for purchase, because... reasons.... FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!!

 

Also, when you point out that 'everyone else is doing it!' doesn't that kind of go against what the US is all about? Aren't you supposed to be better? To hold yourselves to a higher standard? What happened to the aspirations of leading the world in the struggle for freedom?

Are you now content to be just like all the rest?

[Mecky]

Weird how the people from the US on this forum seem to have so little respect for Jefferson, Franklin et al.

 

It's as if almost the they are just sticking their fingers in their ears and saying 'no the constitution doesn't mean that' and pretending that the authors of the declaration and constitution weren't vehemently against this sort of surveillance.

 

They say that the founding fathers couldn't have imagined the technologies we have, and despite the fact that they were adamant that people's letters and effects should never be examined and recorded by the state, it's totally ok for the state to monitor people's emails and phonecalls and internet usage, because... reasons... erm.... SCARY TERRORISTS!!!

 

Yet when it comes to the second amendment who cares that the founding fathers couldn't possibly have envisioned a world where relatively cheap high powered fully automatic rifles would be widely available for purchase, because... reasons.... FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!!

 

Also, when you point out that 'everyone else is doing it!' doesn't that kind of go against what the US is all about? Aren't you supposed to be better? To hold yourselves to a higher standard? What happened to the aspirations of leading the world in the struggle for freedom?

Are you now content to be just like all the rest?

 

But it's not just US citizens who have double standards

[Harleyman]

Weird how the people from the US on this forum seem to have so little respect for Jefferson, Franklin et al.

 

It's as if almost the they are just sticking their fingers in their ears and saying 'no the constitution doesn't mean that' and pretending that the authors of the declaration and constitution weren't vehemently against this sort of surveillance.

 

They say that the founding fathers couldn't have imagined the technologies we have, and despite the fact that they were adamant that people's letters and effects should never be examined and recorded by the state, it's totally ok for the state to monitor people's emails and phonecalls and internet usage, because... reasons... erm.... SCARY TERRORISTS!!!

Yet when it comes to the second amendment who cares that the founding fathers couldn't possibly have envisioned a world where relatively cheap high powered fully automatic rifles would be widely available for purchase, because... reasons.... FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!!!

 

Also, when you point out that 'everyone else is doing it!' doesn't that kind of go against what the US is all about? Aren't you supposed to be better? To hold yourselves to a higher standard? What happened to the aspirations of leading the world in the struggle for freedom?

Are you now content to be just like all the rest?

 

SCARY TERRORISTS- not to be taken seriously then? Much like telling a kid that SCARY BOOGYMEN aren't real and dont worry son they wont come at you from the clothes closet one dark night

 

It would be a foolish leader.... no... more than foolish...a criminally negligent leader of any nation not to take every precaution and security measure possible to protect his country and it's citizens from harm.

 

The founding fathers would have held that to be the most self evident truth in existence.

 

It's no good assuming how long men would react or behave as it relates to situations in this day and age. To assume without knowing is completely illogical

Nothing is conclusive until actually proven

[buck]

Thomas Jefferson was familiar with terrorists. They wore red coats and carried muskets and murdered some of the men who had helped them win the French American war.