garrence Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 America - Land of the free hahahahahahahahahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANAdeLdF Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Do you think due process always works with terrorism ? What's the alternative ? Torturing suspicious-looking folks until they tell you the history of the world ? Reality differs somewhat from TV shows starring Kiefer Sutherland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I suspect that he's driven by ego rather than morals. That said the US really should be more transparent and honest. Although compared to China and Russia they are still angelic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 As I said do your own homework. You can't be thinking that all terror plots are hatched online can you? What did they do before the internet? Yes most are hatched online. It must be far preferable to discuss and plan such things in the privacy of home behind a keyboard or phone than risk being surveilled outdoors and tailed to a set meeting place or leaving messages on bits of paper in designated drop boxes Maybe the IRA didnt have much choice in their heyday but things have moved on a bit since the 1970/80s in case you didn't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 It's apparent that the cold war never really ended as Russia and China lost no time in aiding and abetting Snowdens escape. yeah because I'm sure that if the tables were turned and it were a Russian dissident who'd fled his country I'm sure the Americans would do everything they could to hand him back to Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 People might be interested to watch 'Dispatches' on Channel 4, Monday 24th June 8.0pm, entitled 'The Police's Dirty secrets' which (I believe) is about another whistle blower and Police surveilance. I think the Dispatches programme is going to be about the dirty tricks campaign waged against the Lawrence family. That is, the Met police spied on Steven Lawrence's family to smear them. Utterly sickening. But then as a city we've lived through Hillsborough so we know that the police and dirty tricks are frequent bedfellows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I'm just gonna leave this quote by the great Ben Franklin right here: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANAdeLdF Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 I suspect that he's driven by ego rather than morals. That said the US really should be more transparent and honest. Although compared to China and Russia they are still angelic. "Even though we know governments do all kinds of things I was shocked by the information about the US surveillance operation, Prism. To me, it's abusively using government powers to interfere in individuals' privacy." The words of Ai Weiwei, China's most prominent dissident. Let's not get into "but China's still worse". Two wrongs don't make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Yes most are hatched online. It must be far preferable to discuss and plan such things in the privacy of home behind a keyboard or phone than risk being surveilled outdoors and tailed to a set meeting place or leaving messages on bits of paper in designated drop boxes Maybe the IRA didnt have much choice in their heyday but things have moved on a bit since the 1970/80s in case you didn't know So your argument is some terrorists use the internet, so we must monitor the whole internet? In the cold light of day that makes absolutely no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Voilà the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution : "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The last three line, by the way, describe what I mean by due legal process. So I will ask you again Harleyman : who was violating the constitution ? The NSA or Snowden ? And if you stick with your line of the ends justifying the means, is the US constitution still worth the paper it was written on ? ---------- Post added 23-06-2013 at 23:02 ---------- Are you calling Snowden a terrorist now ? The Constitution is a fine document, probably the finest document guaranteeing the freedom and rights of citizenry ever written but Thomas Jefferson never imagined what the problems of the 21st century would be in dealing with threats against his newly created republic. I shouldn't even have to say this as it's as plain as the nose on your face. You can either be pragmatic or naively idealistic. Snowden is a traitor that's all. he's provided information detrimental to security just as your traitors Blunt, Burgess and McLean did back in the 1960s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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