Marx Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 The law has to be seen to be equal in its application and it isn't. Geller should not have been banned. The Spectator sums it up well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natjack Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I'm no conspiracy theorist but between the silly bans on Geller and Spencer and now this farce it does seem like someone is desperate to give the EDL all the ammo they need to recruit up and down the country. If it's not tacit support for the EDL it is massive incompetence by the authorities. We've just been saying something along similar lines. Everytime the authorities pull a stroke like this, Tommy Robinson gets more fans, and the EDL get more sympathy. Robinson and his mate get arrested and the other two get to walk away by the looks of it. How does that work? Unless, as you imply, it's all a set-up. What's the government playing at? My mate just said, can you imagine what'd happen if we told the police not to let Choudary and his ilk walk through 'our' areas or we'd duff em up badly. I somehow don't think he'd be redirected, we'd just be expected to pass it off or end up in a cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 We've just been saying something along similar lines. Everytime the authorities pull a stroke like this, Tommy Robinson gets more fans, and the EDL get more sympathy. Robinson and his mate get arrested and the other two get to walk away by the looks of it. How does that work? Unless, as you imply, it's all a set-up. What's the government playing at? My mate just said, can you imagine what'd happen if we told the police not to let Choudary and his ilk walk through 'our' areas or we'd duff em up badly. I somehow don't think he'd be redirected, we'd just be expected to pass it off or end up in a cell. Exactly. I just despair that the government have managed to turn a bunch of feckless thugs into the UK franchise of counter-jihad in about 4 days utterly depressing. Because we cannot turn our back on countering the jihadist evil these guys will become mainstream, so we'll have stupid people influencing policy because intelligent people shied away from dealing with the islamist enemy on all levels rather than just the military one. After the recent events I think opposing the edl is rather pointless as they have had all their arguments confirmed by state actions, it is better to try to influence them in a possitive manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafya Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Exactly. I just despair that the government have managed to turn a bunch of feckless thugs into the UK franchise of counter-jihad in about 4 days utterly depressing. Because we cannot turn our back on countering the jihadist evil these guys will become mainstream, so we'll have stupid people influencing policy because intelligent people shied away from dealing with the islamist enemy on all levels rather than just the military one. After the recent events I think opposing the edl is rather pointless as they have had all their arguments confirmed by state actions, it is better to try to influence them in a possitive manner. My Bold= Most people won't capitulate to the likes of the EDL like you seem to be doing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 My Bold= Most people won't capitulate to the likes of the EDL like you seem to be doing.... The EDL have previously presented a rather silly idea that we live in a country where the criticism of islam is criminalised. The last few days have proved them right. So while not agreeing with their tactics how can I say they are wrong? If I say they are right and that seems to have been proved beyond doubt, then surely the only decent course of action is to try as a white Englishman to guide them to positive ways of dealing with this issue and not engaging in violence. As far as I can see the government just pulled the trigger with these two things so the more sane white men engaging with these groups the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeMac Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The EDL have previously presented a rather silly idea that we live in a country where the criticism of islam is criminalised. The last few days have proved them right. So while not agreeing with their tactics how can I say they are wrong? If I say they are right and that seems to have been proved beyond doubt, then surely the only decent course of action is to try as a white Englishman to guide them to positive ways of dealing with this issue and not engaging in violence. As far as I can see the government just pulled the trigger with these two things so the more sane white men engaging with these groups the better. You seem to have a racist/ sexist thing going on. I'm sure that it is all to do with the time of the evening. But it is quite revealing. BTW. Women live in the UK too:love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 You seem to have a racist/ sexist thing going on. I'm sure that it is all to do with the time of the evening. But it is quite revealing. BTW. Women live in the UK too:love: you seem to confuse me being white/male/English with not knowing people who are not white/male/English exist. I was talking about me. White women will have the same views so thats sexism out the window. Black men and women will have the same views so that's racism out the window. An appalling assault on free speech we will all condemn, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marx Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The edl can now legitimately label themselves the 'victims' in this fiasco. Hate preachers are unhindered and even endorsed by the likes of Livingstone and Vaz but anyone who wants to raise issues about the dangers of Islam and its inherent misogyny and homophobia are called racists. I consider the followers of Islam to be victims of its warped, outdated ideology which needs to be challenged through education and debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 After the recent events I think opposing the edl is rather pointless as they have had all their arguments confirmed by state actions I think that's a little over-stated. While they're low enough to use a child with cancer as a reason to march about and cause trouble, I'll stay out. There are wiser critics of religion than these fools. However, a monumental balls up of policing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessica23 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The EDL have previously presented a rather silly idea that we live in a country where the criticism of islam is criminalised. The last few days have proved them right. So while not agreeing with their tactics how can I say they are wrong? If I say they are right and that seems to have been proved beyond doubt, then surely the only decent course of action is to try as a white Englishman to guide them to positive ways of dealing with this issue and not engaging in violence. As far as I can see the government just pulled the trigger with these two things so the more sane white men engaging with these groups the better. I'm surprised at this, especially given your comments after meeting them the other weekend. They knew they'd be arrested for doing what they did; they haven't been arrested for criticising Islam, not even remotely. They were arrested because they didn't stick to the pre-arranged route that the police had imposed on them. Exactly the same powers and laws that saw 60 plus anti-fascists arrested for sitting down in the road a few weeks ago to stop the BNP. There is no right to free protest in this country wherever you like. Have a look here. The police can basically determine how you do it and how many of you do it, and if you choose not to stick to the arrangements, you'll get arrested. We can argue the rights and wrongs of the legislation, but it applies to everyone. Claiming that EDL leaders have been arrested for criticising Islam and are therefore free speech martyrs who should be supported is just factually incorrect. Only someone who was sympathetic to them in the first place could really see this as the state cracking down on them because it's illegal to criticise Islam. Y'all should probably pay more attention to the state cracking down on everyone. Remember the grossly disproportionate sentences handed out after the London riots? Remember Archie Meadows? The UK Uncut Fortnum and Mason arrests? The preemptive visits known activists get from the Met before demos? As a general tendency, I don't see Sheffield Forum leaping to the defence of left-wing protesters when they get arrested. It's never a case then of the state proving them right with their heavy-handed policing, is it? No, in those situations it's the police rightfully showing students and the unwashed who's boss and reminding them what a decent country we live in. And yet, miraculously, when it comes to Tommy and Kev suddenly a white Englishman's right to propagate vile racist and Islamophobic tripe becomes a hugely important thing to fight for and action by the state only confirms their righteous message. Strange that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.