Phanerothyme Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 It's a good point Phan. But I think the key difference is that driving isn't a hobby and even non drivers benefit directly from motor traffic. Everyone benefits from the massive tax contrbutions of smokers, a net contribution of about £8 billion after deducting costs to the NHS.I don't disagree that options should be investigated to minimise pollution from vehicles Smoking establishments can maintain excellent air quality with investment in technology. , but it's not an issue of a few people practising a nasty habbit and expecting everyone else to put up with it. No it's an issue about not being able to escape from traffic fumes at all, and their undeniable link to childhood asthma rates. Want to make a difference to people's health on a real scale - deal with traffic pollution. A wide variety of smoking and non-smoking establishments can support smokers and non-smokers - no requirement for a ban, just a notice on the door. I don't think that a partial ban would ever have been workable. Funny, because it *is* a partial ban. And you're right - it's not workable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I don't think that's been the case for a long time Chicken M. Smokers are without a doubt in the minority these days. I don't think that a partial ban would ever have been workable. At least a total ban creates a level playing field for all establishments and workplaces. If nobody can smoke, nobody needs to think about it the effects on staff and customers and premises any more. The belligerent few who will stop going out will just find that their 'protest' falls on stony ground while the rest of us just get on with what we were doing before, without the smoking. I still fail to see why there cannot be a choice. If, as you say, the majority are non smokers then economics should mean that all pubs will naturally become non-smoking establishments in order to tap into this enormous wealth of customers just dying to go out to the pub in the evening providing its smoke free. Meanwhile smoking establishments can exist, clearly identified so that no non-smoker should accidently enter. Result - everyone happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickmonk Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I don't think that's been the case for a long time Chicken M. Smokers are without a doubt in the minority these days. The belligerent few who will stop going out will just find that their 'protest' falls on stony ground while the rest of us just get on with what we were doing before, without the smoking. There are still loads of places like that - believe me. Just because non-smokers are 'in the majority' does not mean that EVERY pub needs to cater solely for them. I have absolutely no issue with having the majority of pubs non-smoking but I would like to smoke when I'm out having a pint. Plenty of other people feel the same way. I don't expect non-smokers to have to breathe it in so why not let us smokers have a few pubs catering for us? If the non-smoking idea is as popular as you'd have me believe then pubs should be falling over themselves to provide a non-smoking environment. That would leave a few local pubs for me to go to where I don't have to worry about other people's health issues. Chicken Monkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickmonk Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Given that it looks as though the ban is going to happen, maybe it would be better for landlords to start thinking about how to make their businesses more attractive to the 75% of people who don't smoke, rather than giving out the message of "go away, you're not really welcome here" that we get at present, and in forums like this. I think most people on this forum agree with you so I'm not quite sure how you've got that impression. But in any case... I guess landlords will make there businesses more attractive to non-smokers by er.... banning smoking. What else do you want? Blood? And the places that give you the impression that they don't want non-smokers there are probably the places I'd like to hang out. (Just because, at present, I'm in a smoking phase, not because I dislike non-smokers. Some of my closest mates are non-smokers y'know...) Chicken Monkey x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucretia_73 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I remember at Sheffield College, they had a perimeter line forming a box around the entrance doors (about 10m away) - security could be quite rigourous in their enforcement of the line Meant I didn't need to walk through clouds of smoke (usually) as people were fairly far away from the doors anyway. Not that its really a workable solution in real life. Smoking in hospitals and public buildings is already banned anyway At my place of work people used to smoke just outside the front doors as tends to happen with public buildings. Now they have a 'coned' off area of the car park, which stupidly is just by the gate. There are two entrances but that is the only solely pedestrian one so if you want to enter or leave the grounds that way you still end up walking through smoke. Alternatively you risk getting mown down by cars leaving by the other way in/out. The 'coned' area makes me laugh though - all the smokers crammed into the space, outcast, come rain or shine - having to stand out there in all weathers would certainly be enough to make me give up had I ever been rich enough to start in the first place. The result of these bans as far as I can see is to make it as difficult and uncomfortable as possible for smokers, making them into social pariahs in the hope they'll give up and conform to peer pressure. I think if I smoked I'd be determined to not let the ******** grind me down and take up the pipe, cigars, hookahs, whatever, just to rebel. Smoking could go underground - groups of smokers huddled together in secret bunkers accessed with a special knock and password, passing round rare cigarettes with no filters, flicking Zippo lighters and talking about the good old days in the 50's where people were encouraged to smoke 'cos it was cool and sexy and the Marlboro Man was the ultimate hero...before Nick O' Teen came along and knocked him off his perch. Anyone remember Nick O' Teen? I can't remember what the hero was called who warned the kids off him in those 80's ads... And whatever happened to Death cigarettes? Now there was a descriptive brand name. I watched someone buying fags the other day while stood in a queue and they've really gone to town with the warnings on the packets now. No more mincing of words - just Smoking Causes Death in big letters. Like anyone who smokes actually reads that and goes - 'Oh no! I didn't realise...better throw these away and just burn a fiver instead.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy1 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I totally disagree with the none smoking ban! Im a smoker and have been for a couple of years. I love going out the pub and having a cig. Most of my friends do too. I understand that people who dont smoke dont like the smell etc. I must admit, if Im eating I cant stand the smell. But why a total ban? It should be a free world. Why not have a smoking room? Or special licences for pubs or clubs which allow people to smoke. Maybe have none smoking nights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathom Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Death cigarettes were great - a nice smoke with uber-cool packaging. I used to keep the packet and decant other cigs into it 'cause it was so good. Especially the higher tar black packet version. If the area outside a building is 'public property' they can't stop you from smoking wherever you like. Hence the huddles of people smoking on the pavement directly outside offices which front onto the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucretia_73 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Death cigarette packets made me wish I smoked as they did look super cool. I used to like the old black John Player Special packs too with the gold writing, but much as I liked the packets the fact they smelled of tobacco was really off putting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffie Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 what do you think your views please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartempion Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I'm pleased. I hate coming out of pubs stinking of smoke. It'll save lots of clothes and hair washing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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