garethverdin Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Gareth - i wasn't trying to acuse you personally of being selfish, sorry if it came across like that. You don't counteract an opinion about something being bad by saying that something else is also bad. I agree that car pollution is a problem. As soon as we've resolved the smoking issue we can get right onto the car pollution issue. Of course most private car journeys are used to commute to work, or to travel where public transport is unavailable or unreliable. I'm not sure how you can resolve that. The hydrogen/electric/hybrid cars are all a step in the right direction, but there's still too much tax to be made from oil at the moment for the goverment to do what it should. Sorry Cyclone, but you've entirely missed my point. I will be quiet now I cam here to complain about my ants in my ant works not working burrowing, but ended up arguing instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 [quote name=taxman And another thing - this thing about protecting employees in the workplace - what if the barman/barmaid is a smoker as well. :[/quote] went to Spankys for a party last month - big sign No Smoking at the bar. After 1/2 an hour the barmaid stands at the end of the bar & sparks up.What the hell is that about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I know lots of people that like to drink and also don't like to smoke. Weatherspoons banned smoking some time ago, it's yet to go broke, even if it should because it's scummy. I'm not sure the what if they are a smoker argument is getting at, they certainly aren't all smokers, so what's your point? If the demand for a total ban was as popular as the Govt. have us believe then the Drinks industry wouldn't be opposing a total ban and we would have thousands of smoke free pubs everywhere full to the brim. Landlords and publicans and breweries aren't idiots. If money can be made from banning all smoking they'd have done it ages ago. The point is that the argument about protecting the workers falls if the workers are smokers anyway. In the Hills hotel on Sunday the barstaff had to move into the smoking area for a fag. Same happens at the Cask & Cutler. I don't see how a smoking ban protects them and they don't want one. If you are a non smoking barperson perhaps the sensible thing would be to apply for jobs in non smoking pubs only. After all you wouldn't expect someone with an aversion to alcohol to apply to work in a pub or someone allergic to dogs to work at a kennel. If a landlord owns a pub it is their prerogative who they let through the door. It shouldn't be the Government telling them who they can and who they cannot let through their door. If a landlord wants to be totally smoke free so be it. Put a big banner outside saying smoke free. If a landlord chooses to allow smokers onto HIS or HER premises then likewise, put a big banner outside saying smokers welcome. Whats the problem with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 went to Spankys for a party last month - big sign No Smoking at the bar. After 1/2 an hour the barmaid stands at the end of the bar & sparks up.What the hell is that about? Obviously she doesn't want the government to protect her from secondary smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pauly Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I'd just like to be able to go out to a pub (or a club if the night is going really well) and not come home stinking like an ashtray because the air is full of smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimsid2000 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Why do smokers have such a problem with going outside for a smoke anyway? What's the big deal- it's not going to kill you is it? Get a bit of perspective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudybay Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I'd just like to be able to go out to a pub (or a club if the night is going really well) and not come home stinking like an ashtray because the air is full of smoke. Everyone should be afforded that preserve, Pauly. I'm a smoker, but only smoke at home or in Barnsley ( compulsory in all pubs !). Nobody should have to breathe in second hand smoke against their wishes. However, I do have reservations with regards to a total ban. Firstly, private clubs are just that, private. If you don't like it, don't join. Secondly, and most importantly, once you start banning things, where does it all end? This Government is hell-bent on destroying all the Civil Liberties we have fought long and had for. As long as workers are protected, and can refuse, without retribution, from having to work in a smoky atmosphere, then I think the nanny state has gone far enough. If the Government were really that sincere, as regards to the health of the nation, the use and purchase of tobacco related products would be outlawed. As always, money comes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 If the demand for a total ban was as popular as the Govt. have us believe then the Drinks industry wouldn't be opposing a total ban and we would have thousands of smoke free pubs everywhere full to the brim. Landlords and publicans and breweries aren't idiots. If money can be made from banning all smoking they'd have done it ages ago. The point is that the argument about protecting the workers falls if the workers are smokers anyway. In the Hills hotel on Sunday the barstaff had to move into the smoking area for a fag. Same happens at the Cask & Cutler. I don't see how a smoking ban protects them and they don't want one. If you are a non smoking barperson perhaps the sensible thing would be to apply for jobs in non smoking pubs only. After all you wouldn't expect someone with an aversion to alcohol to apply to work in a pub or someone allergic to dogs to work at a kennel. If a landlord owns a pub it is their prerogative who they let through the door. It shouldn't be the Government telling them who they can and who they cannot let through their door. If a landlord wants to be totally smoke free so be it. Put a big banner outside saying smoke free. If a landlord chooses to allow smokers onto HIS or HER premises then likewise, put a big banner outside saying smokers welcome. Whats the problem with that? unless you can say for definite that all bar workers are smokers then your argument holds no smoke (more topical than holding water). And it's not the government saying who can and cannot be let in, it's government saying that since it's a public house and nominally open to anyone, it should be somewhere people can go without having to be assaulted by poisonous gases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Smoked 40 a day, chain smoked whenever driving. Along with the everpresent smell of sulfite coming from the paper mill I worked for the interior of the car stank like a gas chamber. Friends would suggest Iwent in their car. Fine with me, it saved my gas. Then the ban, no smoking anywhere, and eventually I thought what the heck, and haven't had one for over three years. Smoking bans work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayfish Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Just had a thought on the car fumes - smoke comparison too. I've never walked in the house and had my parents say 'oh you stink of car fumes'. The negative impact on health might be similar (although I suspect smoke is worse) but smokers make other people smell who don't want to. I've been in a foul mood all day because I keep smelling lingering traces of smoke on my hair. I don't think the majority of smokers would care about it enough to openly flout the law on it. Half of them seem to be looking for some incentive to quit anyway, some do it just because their friends do or because it's percieved as cool in an immature chavvy mindset. A ban would work and should be implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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