Plain Talker Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Here's one of those tabloid soundbites. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/jihad_1.shtml Jihad The literal meaning of Jihad is struggle or effort, and it means much more than holy war. Muslims use the word Jihad to describe three different kinds of struggle: A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible The struggle to build a good Muslim society Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary Well, do you know, I could have sworn that's what I said above... ---------- Post added 14-07-2013 at 22:22 ---------- If it's tabloid soundbite Islam, that's what you've written Plain Talker. You talk about "The LESSER jihad is the concept of fighting outwardly for God" (your quote), so the fact is Islam has as one of it's core beliefs the concept of taking up arms for itself and for the god you follow. And yes tribal disputes are settled with the marrying off of young girls, that is fact, I suggest you become more informed. Your prophet married such a young girl, so how can they be doing wrong in the eyes of Islam? More soundbites and error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Wwell, do you know, I could have sworn that's what I said above... ---------- Post added 14-07-2013 at 22:22 ---------- More soundbites and error. So you agree then that it is the duty of every good Muslim to create an Islamic society and defend Islam through violent means. Problem is I don't want the UK turning into an Islamic society because I like it the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Well, do you know, I could have sworn that's what I said above... ---------- Post added 14-07-2013 at 22:22 ---------- More soundbites and error. Ha. No denials or rebuttal then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Sevenrivers, how would you enforce a ban on Islam as you proposed earlier in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 So you agree then that it is the duty of every good Muslim to create an Islamic society and defend Islam through violent means. Problem is I don't want the UK turning into an Islamic society because I like it the way it is. Don't be silly. the UK will no more turn Islamic than Gibraltar would turn Dutch! ---------- Post added 14-07-2013 at 22:44 ---------- Ha. No denials or rebuttal then. No. I'm treating your silly statements with the contempt they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Don't be silly. the UK will no more turn Islamic than Gibraltar would turn Dutch! ---------- Post added 14-07-2013 at 22:44 ---------- No. I'm treating your silly statements with the contempt they deserve. Well he may be a contemptible little so and so but he does have one good point. The very fact that there is a concept of violent jihad within Islam is dodgy, even if it is the lesser Jihad. The very fact that the founder of the religion himself commanded armies is dodgy. That's a bad thing, whatever way you look at it. It means that those extremist Mullahs really don't have to work very hard at all to 'twist' Islam to convince young people to take up the cause of violence. They have an easy task of it, thanks to fundamental beliefs within the religion and the historical examples they can point to. What they are putting out is a plausible version of Islam, no matter how many times you say it's not the real Islam. You may be right, it may be the case that Mohammed would be deeply ashamed of them were he around today, but the point is that it is a plausible version, and very convincing to angry young men. It would be a lot harder for them to do this if the founder had, say for example, said things like 'love your enemy' and 'turn the other cheeek', and had never commanded armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Don't be silly. the UK will no more turn Islamic than Gibraltar would turn Dutch! That’s not really the point is it, to be a good Muslim you must try to create a good Muslim society, not a good society, a good Muslim society and we all know what happens when societies are dominated by Islam. And turning Gibraltar into a Dutch society isn't in the Dutch instruction book on how to live one’s life, its not their aim, but it is the aim of every good Muslim to create a Muslim society. Muslim Society The aggregate of Muslims living together in a more or less ordered community. The community of Muslims living in a particular region and having shared customs, laws, and organizations. Doesn't look much room there for non Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 Sevenrivers, how would you enforce a ban on Islam as you proposed earlier in this thread? I don't for one moment think it is possible. But my opinion is, it will remain a country mired in religious strife whilst ever Islam exists, for I don't believe it can peacefully exist in a tolerant format in that country. ---------- Post added 14-07-2013 at 23:35 ---------- No. I'm treating your silly statements with the contempt they deserve. No, you can't come up with a counter argument. Humour me, do any other religions have a religious concept of holy war, of taking up arms in the name of god and ones religion? And I mean as a religious doctrine? Not for what their followers have actually done, such as the crusades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 That’s not really the point is it, to be a good Muslim you must try to create a good Muslim society, not a good society, a good Muslim society and we all know what happens when societies are dominated by Islam. And turning Gibraltar into a Dutch society isn't in the Dutch instruction book on how to live one’s life, its not their aim, but it is the aim of every good Muslim to create a Muslim society. Muslim Society The aggregate of Muslims living together in a more or less ordered community. The community of Muslims living in a particular region and having shared customs, laws, and organizations. Doesn't look much room there for non Muslims. You are talking tommyrot again. No, in Islam you make society good by being a good Muslim, acting with kindness and honesty, and by being a good person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peer Gynt Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 You forget what times The Prophet lived in, and the tribal disagreements and skirmishes that surrounded the people of the holy lands. (and indeed other places, at that time including Europe) You make far more of the tribal warring of The Prophet's time than it warrants. The skirmishes are being made to sound, through your bias, as if it were on a par with the USSR versus the USA. it would be better to say that the Muslims seem to forget that we now live in the 21st century yet Muslims in many places are still stuck in a feudal, tribal, warlord time warp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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