maxmaximus Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 But what you don't know is how much (or little) each Muslim subscribes to the doctrine as you describe. If they don't then they can’t be defined as Muslim, they can choose to call themselves Muslims but that doesn’t make them Muslim. So to save any further confusion if I refer to Muslims I am talking about Muslims that fit the definition of Muslim. They will be the ones that believe the Quran to be the word of Allah as dictated by Mohammad, revere Mohammad and follow the word of the Quran as well as the teaching of the prophet of Allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 If they don't then they can’t be defined as Muslim, they can choose to call themselves Muslims but that doesn’t make them Muslim. So to save any further confusion if I refer to Muslims I am talking about Muslims that fit the definition of Muslim. They will be the ones that believe the Quran to be the word of Allah as dictated by Mohammad, revere Mohammad and follow the word of the Quran as well as the teaching of the prophet of Allah. NO you mean YOUR description of what a muslim is, not what ANY muslims describe themselves as, you WANT them all to fit the bill as bomb toting ayatollas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 If they don't then they can’t be defined as Muslim, they can choose to call themselves Muslims but that doesn’t make them Muslim. So to save any further confusion if I refer to Muslims I am talking about Muslims that fit the definition of Muslim. They will be the ones that believe the Quran to be the word of Allah as dictated by Mohammad, revere Mohammad and follow the word of the Quran as well as the teaching of the prophet of Allah. You see, you're overlaying your view on what Muslims have to be onto what covers a wide variety of beliefs. Just assuming your hypothesis is correct you don't know how many these 'real' Muslims number in this country, it may well be a minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 But what you don't know is how much (or little) each Muslim subscribes to the doctrine as you describe. We know some things about that. http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/07/10/chapter-3-role-of-islam-in-politics/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 We know some things about that. http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/07/10/chapter-3-role-of-islam-in-politics/ That's very interesting but I'd like to see some data that is relevant to the UK, as it's a demographic I understand and have the most investment in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 We know some things about that. http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/07/10/chapter-3-role-of-islam-in-politics/ you know, you EVER known anybody thats ever been asked one of those public survey questions? i havent lol they say like 84% of people polled said, who and where do they poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 You see, you're overlaying your view on what Muslims have to be onto what covers a wide variety of beliefs. Just assuming your hypothesis is correct you don't know how many these 'real' Muslims number in this country, it may well be a minority. I think you're both actually in agreement. Islam is designed to expand and have zero loss from the existing power base hence the death penalty for people who leave the faith. So max's definition of a true muslim is quite correct, you have to believe the qu'ran is the word of god, mohammed the messanger and perfect human to emmulate etc. But because of how islam was designed there are probably hundreds of millions of muslims who don't believe any of that but publically identify as muslim because of the way islam makes it incredibly difficult for anyone with the misfortune to be born to devout muslims to say actually this is a load of rubbish and I don't believe a word of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 NO you mean YOUR description of what a muslim is, not what ANY muslims describe themselves as, you WANT them all to fit the bill as bomb toting ayatollas It’s not my description; it’s the definition and each word as a definition which saves much confusion. If we don’t follow the definition then I could just call myself a Muslim and take offence at everything you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 It’s not my description; it’s the definition and each word as a definition which saves much confusion. If we don’t follow the definition then I could just call myself a Muslim and take offence at everything you say. may aswell i take offence at everything you say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxmaximus Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 may aswell i take offence at everything you say I don't have an issue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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