The Church of England and Wonga - a tale of hypocrisy

[andygardener]

It is clear that you did not support Occupy Sheffield. However, your words imply that you do support the notion of a 'fair society'. Can you explain what you consider to be a fair society or how you support the struggle for its establishment?

 

A fair days pay for a fair days work is at the heart of a fair society.

 

So don't reward the idle malingerer with more than the worker but also don't demand the sincere British jobseeker get a job while importing immigrants hand over fist to do him out of a job would be good starting points.

[Staunton]

A fair days pay for a fair days work is at the heart of a fair society.

 

So don't reward the idle malingerer with more than the worker but also don't demand the sincere British jobseeker get a job while importing immigrants hand over fist to do him out of a job would be good starting points.

 

As I said earlier in this thread: those individuals who could be encountered as Occupy Sheffield, the ones who camped in the city centre for a number of weeks at the end of 2011 and into 2012, were just people, ordinary individuals with few resources, with their own circumstances and concerns, who came together in the moment because they each recognised that there was sometyhing very wrong happening in the world, and they felt a strong motivation to do something. They were not a pre-existing group or an organised movement. They came from a wide variety of background, and had a broad spectrum of concerns.

 

There are other opportunities. If you feel strongly about fair pay, then there is always the Sheffield Equality Group. Have you considered joining their campaign, or have you thought about attending one of their meetings?

 

http://sheffieldequality.wordpress.com/

 

It will take more than a few folk in tents to bring about the transformation of globaised capitalism as currently structured by the multnational corporations and the prevailing economic policy of the UK government.

[andygardener]

As I said earlier in this thread: those individuals who could be encountered as Occupy Sheffield, the ones who camped in the city centre for a number of weeks at the end of 2011 and into 2012, were just people, ordinary individuals with few resources, with their own circumstances and concerns, who came together in the moment because they each recognised that there was sometyhing very wrong happening in the world, and they felt a strong motivation to do something. They were not a pre-existing group or an organised movement. They came from a wide variety of background, and had a broad spectrum of concerns.

 

There are other opportunities. If you feel strongly about fair pay, then there is always the Sheffield Equality Group. Have you considered joining their campaign, or have you thought about attending one of their meetings?

 

http://sheffieldequality.wordpress.com/

 

It will take more than a few folk in tents to bring about the transformation of globaised capitalism as currently structured by the multnational corporations and the prevailing economic policy of the UK government.

 

Or we could address the two key issues by introducing a benefits cap, which has already been done and stopping mass immigration which will happen because any party that won't will not win the next election.

 

A lot more effective than sitting around in tents with whiny hippys.

[Staunton]

Or we could address the two key issues by introducing a benefits cap, which has already been done and stopping mass immigration which will happen because any party that won't will not win the next election.

 

A lot more effective than sitting around in tents with whiny hippys.

 

Neoliberalism promotes three things, the withdrawal of welfare, the privatisation of any public sector institution that has any assets that can be stripped or services that can be subverted to create profit, and deregulation so that there is no effective accountability, Oh, and tax structuring to avoid any social obligations.

 

Immigration is happening because of the implications of neoliberal policy at global level. Benefit caps are happening because neoliberals do not believe in the state, and think that ordinary people should not have any entitlement to a safety net, even as they are busy cutting jobs in the public sector.

 

Your concerns indicate that you are dangerously close to supporting neoliberalism. And neoliberalism is fundamentally opposed to fairness.

[andygardener]

Neoliberalism promotes three things, the withdrawal of welfare, the privatisation of any public sector institution that has any assets that can be stripped or services that can be subverted to create profit, and deregulation so that there is no effective accountability, Oh, and tax structuring to avoid any social obligations.

 

Immigration is happening because of the implications of neoliberal policy at global level. Benefit caps are happening because neoliberals do not believe in the state, and think that ordinary people should not have any entitlement to a safety net, even as they are busy cutting jobs in the public sector.

 

Your concerns indicate that you are dangerously close to supporting neoliberalism. And neoliberalism is fundamentally opposed to fairness.

 

Britons should work if they can.

 

We should not import foreigners to take their jobs.

 

Those Britons who choose not to work once the foreigners are taken from the equation should suffer the consequences of their indolence.

 

Simple concepts. Can you subscribe to them or will you hide behind no-solution bluster?

[Staunton]

Britons should work if they can.

 

We should not import foreigners to take their jobs.

 

Those Britons who choose not to work once the foreigners are taken from the equation should suffer the consequences of their indolence.

 

Simple concepts. Can you subscribe to them or will you hide behind no-solution bluster?

 

Who is it that imports ordinary people from other countries to the UK?

 

The multinational corporations.

 

Why?

 

To enhance profit.

 

The word 'choose' is an interesting one - it is one of the neoliberals' favourite terms. They say that people who choose not to work should have their benefit stopped. The simple question to ask of anyone who makes such a statement is 'Where is the work?' There are two and a half million people unemployed in this country, and there are few signs of improvement on this front.

 

Your argument can essentially be characterised as one of embracing downward prejudice. However, the real scandal is at an entirely different level. It is the truly astonishing level of tax avoidance that is depleting UK revenue, along with the culture of greed that is driving UK economic policy.

[andygardener]

Who is it that imports ordinary people from other countries to the UK?

 

The multinational corporations.

 

Why?

 

To enhance profit.

 

The word 'choose' is an interesting one - it is one of the neoliberals' favourite terms. They say that people who choose not to work should have their benefit stopped. The simple question to ask of anyone who makes such a statement is 'Where is the work?' There are two and a half million people unemployed in this country, and there are few signs of improvement on this front.

 

Your argument can essentially be characterised as one of embracing downward prejudice. However, the real scandal is at an entirely different level. It is the truly astonishing level of tax avoidance that is depleting UK revenue, along with the culture of greed that is driving UK economic policy.

 

So like me you oppose any further immigration unless there is a clear and present danger to the nation if that immigrant is not admitted and support deportation of any and all illegal immigrants present in our country, the closing of any business that employs illegal immigrants and the removal of all public funds to anyone not legally resident here?

 

You support thus the British job seeker? Or not?

[Staunton]

So like me you oppose any further immigration unless there is a clear and present danger to the nation if that immigrant is not admitted and support deportation of any and all illegal immigrants present in our country, the closing of any business that employs illegal immigrants and the removal of all public funds to anyone not legally resident here?

 

You support thus the British job seeker? Or not?

 

I was urging some consideration of fairness, but it seems that I am being invited to indulge in scapegoating along ethnic and class lines.

 

Etnic scapegoating is a policy that played an enormous part in the global turmoil that followed the last Wall Street crash – I would advise a more cautious rhetoric and a rethink of what it means to support notions such as fairness and justice.

[andygardener]

I was urging some consideration of fairness, but it seems that I am being invited to indulge in scapegoating along ethnic and class lines.

 

Etnic scapegoating is a policy that played an enormous part in the global turmoil that followed the last Wall Street crash – I would advise a more cautious rhetoric and a rethink of what it means to support notions such as fairness and justice.

 

So you don't give a damn that Blair opened the floodgates and left the aspirant British worker competing with undercutters from all corners of the planet?

 

Thought not.

 

But don't ever pretend you give a damn about the British worker. You are the archetypal traitor to the British working class, pretending to care about them while supporting mass immigration because you are scared of being called "racist". I don't know enough about you as a man to judge you but your cowardice on this issue does not endear me to you.

[Dan Tien]

Neoliberalism promotes three things, the withdrawal of welfare, the privatisation of any public sector institution that has any assets that can be stripped or services that can be subverted to create profit, and deregulation so that there is no effective accountability, Oh, and tax structuring to avoid any social obligations.

 

Immigration is happening because of the implications of neoliberal policy at global level. Benefit caps are happening because neoliberals do not believe in the state, and think that ordinary people should not have any entitlement to a safety net, even as they are busy cutting jobs in the public sector.

 

Your concerns indicate that you are dangerously close to supporting neoliberalism. And neoliberalism is fundamentally opposed to fairness.

 

Neoliberalism promotes . . . four things.

 

You sound like Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition sketch, and your posts are almost as funny. Why do people like you insist on claiming the unemployed have no choice lets be honest some of them are just scrubbers who can't be arsed to work and if you don't accept that that's fine your entitled to your opinion but in that case mine is that you don't live in the real world