Is Sheffield Council about to sell off bits of Graves Park YET AGAIN?

[WallBuilder]

Here is a list of listed buildings in Sheffield. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listed_buildings_in_Sheffield I can't find the cottage on the list but that does not mean it is not listed. If it said it in the Star then it must be true or did they read it on the forum?

 

It is odd how it is mentioned on other web sites although you have to search for it but yet it doesn't appear on the heritage web site and their lists. So as I'm an inquisitive little so and so I've sent off an email to the conservation office of the council and am now awaiting their response.

I did wonder whether the Star was doing it's usual inaccurate thing but can't be bothered to check what date that article was released on and when the subject of the listed status came up on the forum. I know I got the idea that it was listed from somewhere off the net and thought it might of been off the councils web pages somewhere, but as I said I'll now wait for an answer from the conservation lot at the council.

[Blackbeard]

It is odd how it is mentioned on other web sites although you have to search for it but yet it doesn't appear on the heritage web site and their lists. So as I'm an inquisitive little so and so I've sent off an email to the conservation office of the council and am now awaiting their response.

I did wonder whether the Star was doing it's usual inaccurate thing but can't be bothered to check what date that article was released on and when the subject of the listed status came up on the forum. I know I got the idea that it was listed from somewhere off the net and thought it might of been off the councils web pages somewhere, but as I said I'll now wait for an answer from the conservation lot at the council.

 

Interesting, I have found a larger list of listed building in Sheffield and I found this reference to Graves Park

 

"Lodge, gates and boundary wall. c1870. Coursed squared stone

with ashlar dressings and fish scale slate roof with coped

stone ridge stack. Plinth. Patterned bargeboards with finials.

Single storey; 3 window range. Central gabled porch with

rebated elliptical arched doorway, close boarded door and

wrought-iron gate. Above the door, a blank panel with moulded

surround. On either side, a single light window with hexagonal

patterned glazing bars. Beyond, single 2-light casements with

stone surrounds and mullions. Right gable, to Derbyshire Lane,

has a canted stone bay window with a central stone mullioned

2-light casement. Above it, a framed blank panel.

INTERIOR not inspected.

Adjoining gateway has 4 ashlar piers with plinths and shallow

pyramidal caps. Central pair of wrought-iron gates flanked by

single smaller gates. Adjoining, to east, a coursed squared

stone boundary wall with half-round coping, approx 200m long."

 

Is this the cottage?

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-457041-lodge-gates-and-boundary-wall-at-north-e

 

The full list http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/england/sheffield/sheffield

[retep]

A possible solution then may be to let the cottage out on say a 25 year lease, the initial rent to be exceedingly low with the understanding that the new tenant do any required maintenance and refurb to a required standard and then the rent go up but not excessively. This would benefit the park and the general area.

I'm going to have to take a wander over to Chantry cottage because I just remember it as a derelict shored up shell which must of cost a fortune if it's been sold and rebuilt into a home.

 

"SHEFFIELD PROPERTY SERVICES

 

THE CHARITY (QUALIFIED SURVEYOR'S REPORTS) REGULATIONS 1992

 

 

 

 

CHANTRY COTTAGE, NORTON LANE, SHEFFIELD

PROPOSED SUPPLEMENTAL LEASE

 

 

1. PURPOSE OF REPORT

 

1.1 To advise the Trustees of the Graves Park and Norton Nurseries Charities in respect of a proposed granting of a supplemental lease to David Hinchliffe, the existing lessee of Chantry Cottage.

 

 

2. BACKGROUND

 

2.1 On 26th January 1995 Sheffield City Council completed the auction sale of Chantry Cottage (shown outlined blue on the attached plan) by way of a 125 year lease at a ground rent of £50 per annum. The property formed part of 16.8 hectares of land acquired in 1936 and, at that time, was believed to form part of the Council's statutory account, but subsequently has been held by the Charity Commission to be charitable. In error the area shown hatched blue was included in the sale, although this area forms part of the main access to the Norton Nurseries site off Norton Lane.

 

2.2 Mr. David Hinchliffe acquired the lease on 15th May 1995.

 

2.3 Mr. Hinchliffe subsequently approached the Council seeking to acquire further land to the north of the property for the provision of vehicular access and garaging facilities which could not be wholly accommodated within the area of the original lease.

 

2.4 On 3rd November 1999 the Council granted Mr. Hinchliffe a supplemental lease of the area shown outlined red, the majority of which was acquired in 1970 by the Council as part of 8.3 hectares of land held as part of the Council's statutory account, although a small portion forms part of the area referred to in para. 2.1 above. At that time, the latter was still not believed to be charitable.

 

2.5 The site was subsequently developed and the area shown outlined green was enclosed within the boundaries of Chantry Cottage. The site has been developed in such a manner that vehicular access to the garage (at the rear of the property) is impossible without this additional area. The area outlined green is currently within the Council's statutory account and is not charitable.

 

2.6 The Council are in dispute with Mr. Hinchliffe in respect of the area outlined green and concerning the precise line of the westerly boundary to the original lease. Litigation has been considered to resolve the dispute.

2.7 In accordance with the general pre-litigation protocol the Director of Legal & Administrative Services advises that mediation is considered as an alternative means of resolving the dispute and surveyors representing both parties have investigated a further supplemental lease to resolve the outstanding dispute.

 

 

3. PROPOSED SUPPLEMENTAL LEASE

 

3.1 Subject to the formal agreement of the Trustees, it is proposed to resolve this long-standing dispute by way of a further supplemental lease, co-terminous with the original lease, including the area shown outlined green.

 

3.2 Mr. Hinchliffe has made a formal offer via his agents of £7,285 for the land, which has a total area of 135 sq.m. or thereabouts. As part of the proposed transaction, Mr. Hinchliffe would surrender back to the Council the area shown hatched blue with an area of approximately 10 sq.m. and will re-align the westerly boundary to the correct line.

 

3.3 The Council and Mr. Hinchliffe's agents commissioned an independent valuation of various alternative transactions at the site from which the net value of £7285 has been derived. Mr Hinchliffe will also pay the Council’s fees associated with the transaction.

 

3.4 The terms for the supplemental lease proposed are consequently considered to represent market value.

 

 

4. CONCLUSION

 

4.1 The supplemental lease proposed will address the outstanding dispute without exposing the Trustees to potentially significant legal costs associated with determination through the legal process, the outcome of which cannot be guaranteed.

 

4.2 The net loss of 125 sq.m. which would result from the disposal proposed above should also be considered in the context of: -

 

a) the proposed addition of 11.6 hectares, currently within the Council’s statutory account, to a single amalgamated Graves Park Charity, and

 

b) the consideration of £7,285, which may be credited to the Charity Account.

 

 

5.0 RECOMMENDATION

 

5.1 In the circumstances, the resolution of the long-standing dispute at Chantry Cottage by means of the supplemental lease referred to in this report is recommended for approval."

---------------

And a map showing Cobnar cottage within the parkland

 

https://mgmeetings.sheffield.gov.uk/documents/s8591/Graves%20Park%202.pdf

Edited September 2, 2013 by retep
map added

[WallBuilder]

Quite a detailed description of the little gatehouse by the wrought irnon gates in the above post but Cobnar cottage is further down Cobnar road past the rear of the newish sports pavilion. The only thing you see from the road is what looks more like a rough barn wall with a single door in the middle. Next to that is a double wooden gate that is collapsing and an overgrown area that may of been a side garden in the past.

I'm also now a bit confused about Channtry cottage over by the nursery as some people are saying it was sold but the above post talks about a lessee, so a tenant

 

---------- Post added 02-09-2013 at 16:57 ----------

 

Sorry I've just gone back to the above post and realised the cottage was sold but the land it stands on was leased or in other wordss it isn't a freehold property. Sounds as though the present owner of Chantry cottage thought he had a chance at leasing off more land to give him vehicle access to the rear of the property. I'd of said to him bad luck you're not getting it, you should of thought of that before buying the building.

[retep]

Quite a detailed description of the little gatehouse by the wrought irnon gates in the above post but Cobnar cottage is further down Cobnar road past the rear of the newish sports pavilion. The only thing you see from the road is what looks more like a rough barn wall with a single door in the middle. Next to that is a double wooden gate that is collapsing and an overgrown area that may of been a side garden in the past.

I'm also now a bit confused about Channtry cottage over by the nursery as some people are saying it was sold but the above post talks about a lessee, so a tenant

 

---------- Post added 02-09-2013 at 16:57 ----------

 

Sorry I've just gone back to the above post and realised the cottage was sold but the land it stands on was leased or in other wordss it isn't a freehold property. Sounds as though the present owner of Chantry cottage thought he had a chance at leasing off more land to give him vehicle access to the rear of the property. I'd of said to him bad luck you're not getting it, you should of thought of that before buying the building.

 

If you look at the map it clearly states Cobnar Cottage, outlined in black and within the green line of the park.

[WallBuilder]

If you look at the map it clearly states Cobnar Cottage, outlined in black and within the green line of the park.

 

That map is extremely low resolution and so is almost impossible to figure out what it is showing, however all the stuff about a lessee is to do with Chantry cottage which is the one over by the nursery entrance. Cobnar cottage is in a different section of the park.

[retep]

That map is extremely low resolution and so is almost impossible to figure out what it is showing, however all the stuff about a lessee is to do with Chantry cottage which is the one over by the nursery entrance. Cobnar cottage is in a different section of the park.

 

Yes the bit outlined in black with the words Cobnar Cottage written on it.

[WallBuilder]

So there's a map, no road names and no other distinbuishing landmarks so it's difficult to tell if that is a map of the playing fields, and Cobnar cottage, it could equally be a map showing Chantry cottage. Even if it is a map showing the location of Cobnar cottage then what's the point of pointing it out to me. I know were Cobnar cottage is, I've even been up to the park to locate it exactly and see what it looked like. One point I did notice was on another website were it talks about Bole Hill farm and how after it was damaged in a fire it was sold off and yet according to that same website it was also part of Graves park. Anybody care to explain as no-one seems able to answer me when I've asked for clarification on who owns the farm and the gatehouse

[retep]

So there's a map, no road names and no other distinbuishing landmarks so it's difficult to tell if that is a map of the playing fields, and Cobnar cottage, it could equally be a map showing Chantry cottage. Even if it is a map showing the location of Cobnar cottage then what's the point of pointing it out to me. I know were Cobnar cottage is, I've even been up to the park to locate it exactly and see what it looked like. One point I did notice was on another website were it talks about Bole Hill farm and how after it was damaged in a fire it was sold off and yet according to that same website it was also part of Graves park. Anybody care to explain as no-one seems able to answer me when I've asked for clarification on who owns the farm and the gatehouse

 

Perhaps it's how you are viewing it, Cobnar Road is clear enough as is the Pavilion and the Poplars across the road.

[cgksheff]

..........

 

Found this link although it isn't the one i seem to remember, I also noticed the listed status is mentioned in an article in the Star, both say it's grade two

 

It is quite simple.

 

That website is like many on the web. It has no original sources and picks stuff from elsewhere on the web.

 

Cobnar Cottage is not 'listed'.

That is that. Regardless of how many times you think something or ask something.

 

Why have some properties in the park been treated differently?

Possibly because for a long time Councillors and Officers thought they could do what they wanted.

Today there are a greater number of individuals and groups with authoritative knowledge of what can and cannot be done.

 

Why is Cobnar Cottage in the current state? Why are some trying to sell it off?

It could merely be incompetence but it would not be foolish to look around at the long game and who may benefit from such a situation.

 

All this is irrelevant today.

The cottage is part of the park's assets.

A sale would not benefit the charity in the long-term.

Rules exist to prevent such a sale and the Council are being perverse in trying to take it forward.

 

Anyone with any real interest in the future of Graves Park would best bring pressure to bear on their Councillors to make sure that this nonsense is not progressed any further, wasting taxpayers funds in the process.

 

Your questioning, whilst it may be borne of a genuine curiosity, has an element of argument to it and sadly takes away from the good intentions of many in this thread.

 

There are those that may have answers to your questions, but either they are not on this thread or this forum or choose not to respond.

Could I point you towards "The Friends of Graves Park". You may wish to join them. You may wish to attend their meetings or you may simply wish to contact them as a reliable source of historical information about the park and its assets.

 

 

... or not.

Edited September 2, 2013 by cgksheff