A fair contract of employment!

[Staunton]

Gladly. Go to your nearest bridge that goes over a motorway at 2.15am. Spend an hour counting lorries. The number is huge. As a fair chunk (not even a quarter) will have FedEx or dhl or something down the side all going to or returning from their main hub. In this scenario they won't be getting to their end satellite hub, they'll be in a very very full (and presumably closed which will result in new legislation - they have to stay open by law) motorway services.

 

Oh, and in London you aren't allowed to bring hgvs into London after 6am iirc. That would be an even more fun place to with these fixed hours.

 

Finally the entertainment bit. Many times its taken me well over 3 hours to pull down an event, and I haven't been the last one out. Even if I do I can't travel home. Neither can the band. I'd book into a hotel but their wont be anyone available to book me in (they finish at 2.15 too I guess). Kinda rules out an early start. Mind you the venue won't be putting on a conference because they might not be able to turn the room round in time either.

 

I could go on the rob though, no security guards anywhere until 6am!

 

I did include transport in the list of exemptions form nightworking limits for precisely your reasons tinfoilhat. However, I did outline restrictions on night shifts to ensure that the stresses that overnight working represents both for the individual and their family might be minimised.

 

I also suggested that nightclubs be permitted to schedule staff until 2:15am. Are you indicating that this would create unmanageable constraints, or might there be a way to schedule events in such a way as to comply with a 2:15am regulation?

[Obelix]

A lot of nightclubs go through till 4am as I recall so I suspect it would...

[tinfoilhat]

I did include transport in the list of exemptions form nightworking limits for precisely your reasons tinfoilhat. However, I did outline restrictions on night shifts to ensure that the stresses that overnight working represents both for the individual and their family might be minimised.

 

I also suggested that nightclubs be permitted to schedule staff until 2:15am. Are you indicating that this would create unmanageable constraints, or might there be a way to schedule events in such a way as to comply with a 2:15am regulation?

 

You might have said transport (I missed it!) but what about warehousing staff to load and unload lorries into shops and warehouses? Lots of events go on later than 2.15 and besides once the doors shut do you think staff just get their coats and leave? Nope! Also it's not just clearing up the night before, what's going on the day after? Do people need to change the hotel function room from a late finishing corporate bash to a wedding with an early start or a conference which could take hours to build up. Think of stuff like getting and setting up showpiece events like the British Grand Prix and the olympics. You can't just dump these frankly draconian laws and expect stuff like that to work.

 

---------- Post added 04-08-2013 at 20:07 ----------

 

A lot of nightclubs go through till 4am as I recall so I suspect it would...

 

And not just nightclubs either. There is a whole different world that the op doesn't know about.

[Staunton]

You might have said transport (I missed it!) but what about warehousing staff to load and unload lorries into shops and warehouses? Lots of events go on later than 2.15 and besides once the doors shut do you think staff just get their coats and leave? Nope! Also it's not just clearing up the night before, what's going on the day after? Do people need to change the hotel function room from a late finishing corporate bash to a wedding with an early start or a conference which could take hours to build up. Think of stuff like getting and setting up showpiece events like the British Grand Prix and the olympics. You can't just dump these frankly draconian laws and expect stuff like that to work.

 

I am consciously implying that there might be some lifestyle asadjustments required. The twenty-four hour economy is proving to be a strain on individuals and families, and has been evidenced to be unduly disturbing to residents living in the vicinity of the city centre. I believe that it was a retrograde step to allow nightclubs to open until 4:00am, and propose a return to a 2:00am limit.

 

Obelix's concerns about cinemas and restaurants need not be problematic. I suggested a limit on cafes of 8:00pm but licenced premises such a both restaurants and cinemas might be permitted to function until midnight?

[tinfoilhat]

I am consciously implying that there might be some lifestyle asadjustments required. The twenty-four hour economy is proving to be a strain on individuals and families, and has been evidenced to be unduly disturbing to residents living in the vicinity of the city centre. I believe that it was a retrograde step to allow nightclubs to open until 4:00am, and propose a return to a 2:00am limit.

 

Obelix's concerns about cinemas and restaurants need not be problematic. I suggested a limit on cafes of 8:00pm but licenced premices such a both restaurants and cinemas might be permitted to function until midnight?

 

Do you think places like Germany and Japan have all this in place? No they do not. Speaking of which, what about car plants? They run a three shift system don't they - or do you want Nissan, Toyota etc etc to up sticks to Slovakia?

 

The 24 hour economy is a genie that is out of the bottle, it ain't going back in. Most people like the benifits of them even if they don't want to work those sort of shift patterns. A lot of people prefer odd hours.

[Staunton]

Do you think places like Germany and Japan have all this in place? No they do not. Speaking of which, what about car plants? They run a three shift system don't they - or do you want Nissan, Toyota etc etc to up sticks to Slovakia?

 

The 24 hour economy is a genie that is out of the bottle, it ain't going back in. Most people like the benifits of them even if they don't want to work those sort of shift patterns. A lot of people prefer odd hours.

 

You may well be right. I am only offering proposals for the purposes of debate.

 

I wonder what you think of the other aspects of my proposal, those concerning employment terms and conditions more generally?

[tinfoilhat]

You may well be right. I am only offering proposals for the purposes of debate.

 

I wonder what you think of the other aspects of my proposal, those concerning employment terms and conditions more generally?

 

I think the whistle blower thing has merit.

[Obelix]

[quote=tinfoilhat;9959446

 

And not just nightclubs either. There is a whole different world that the op doesn't know about.

 

Indeed. It's not especially large compared to the regular economy as it were, so it's easy to miss it but it's certainly there.

[dosxuk]

I also suggested that nightclubs be permitted to schedule staff until 2:15am. Are you indicating that this would create unmanageable constraints, or might there be a way to schedule events in such a way as to comply with a 2:15am regulation?

 

If you had to finish all staff by 2.15am in nightclubs, the latest you could run an event to is 1.30am. If the event being run has any sort of production, special requirements, or a fast turn around for a morning event, you're looking at a close time of 10pm - 11pm - i.e. not worth opening.

 

I regularly finish working 3am closing events at 7am+. Events like Glastonbury / all the big festivals would be impossible to run, as the overnight time is used to take down the previous day's equipment and install the next day's stuff, and allow people like the lighting and video people to rehearse their shows while it's still dark. It's completely impossible to do that work during the day.

 

I'm sorry, but such stringent working hours will never work again in this country. What could be worthwhile is having more employment rights to prevent staff being forced to work hours they find unreasonable.

[Obelix]

You may well be right. I am only offering proposals for the purposes of debate.

 

I wonder what you think of the other aspects of my proposal, those concerning employment terms and conditions more generally?

 

Restricting employment by working hours is a total none starter. I'd have to say that I'd reject most of it, apart from the whistleblower things, which are covered in law to some extent already.

 

As regards zero hour contracts I'd turn that on it's head. If employers want the flexibilty then they offer a minimum number of hours that must give someone which can be quite small, and additional hours as needed are then paid at overtime rates. That'll ensure employers at least attempt to ensure there is regular employment in order to keep their overtime bills down.