Would You Have a Gun?

[Harleyman]

Well some seem to claim gun are used in most suicides so it would seem that these people shot themselves and then jumped under a train.

 

I used to play golf sometimes with a retired Los Angeles Police detective. I remember him once saying that it was surprising how many people attempting suicide with a gun still screwed it up.

 

There were cases where ears were blown off, bullets in shoulders or abdomens but failed to do the deed. One would be suicider parted his scalp neatly with a bullet and survived.

 

Extreme nervousness and shaking, unsteady hands were much of the cause.

 

It's only in the movies that it's done right

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2013 at 19:59 ----------

 

How does the number of people who commit suicide using the Sheffield to Chesterfield train compare to the number of people who commit suicide using the Chesterfield to Sheffield train?

 

(Are Sheffielders more or less likely to jump under a train than Chesterfielders?)[/QUOTE]

 

A bad day on the forum could be one of the reasons

[RootsBooster]

Well some seem to claim gun are used in most suicides so it would seem that these people shot themselves and then jumped under a train.

No, nobody has claimed that. You're either genuinely mistaken or you just made that up.

 

I used to play golf sometimes with a retired Los Angeles Police detective. I remember him once saying that it was surprising how many people attempting suicide with a gun still screwed it up.

 

There were cases where ears were blown off, bullets in shoulders or abdomens but failed to do the deed. One would be suicider parted his scalp neatly with a bullet and survived.

 

Extreme nervousness and shaking, unsteady hands were much of the cause.

 

It's only in the movies that it's done right

You may find there's one or two bereaved families who disagree with you on that

[ronthenekred]

I used to play golf sometimes with a retired Los Angeles Police detective. I remember him once saying that it was surprising how many people attempting suicide with a gun still screwed it up.

 

Well that little story fitted in nicely. You do seem to have these little ditties ready at the hip.

 

Does "surprised" mean a lot? Your little story may go to emphasise that 40,000 dead in a year maybe the tip of the iceberg. Who knows, for every one that succeeds, one doesn't. Any takers on another 40,000 gun related incidents on top of the 40k we already have?

[flamingjimmy]

Gun ownership does increase the rate of suicide, no matter how many anecdotes Harleyman has heard from his buddy about botched suicides.

 

"we examined the association between gun availability and suicide across states, 1999-2001. States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups. It remained true after accounting for poverty, urbanization and unemployment. There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm suicide."

 

Source

 

"...one third to four fifths of all suicide attempts, according to studies — are impulsive...

 

...The temporary nature and fleeting sway of many suicidal crises is evident in the fact that more than 90% of people who survive a suicide attempt... do not go on to die by suicide...

 

"...A suicide attempt with a firearm rarely affords a second chance. Attempts involving drugs or cutting, which account for more than 90% of all suicidal acts, prove fatal far less often..."

 

Source

[Harleyman]

Gun ownership does increase the rate of suicide, no matter how many anecdotes Harleyman has heard from his buddy about botched suicides.

 

"we examined the association between gun availability and suicide across states, 1999-2001. States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups. It remained true after accounting for poverty, urbanization and unemployment. There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm suicide."

 

Source

 

"...one third to four fifths of all suicide attempts, according to studies — are impulsive...

 

...The temporary nature and fleeting sway of many suicidal crises is evident in the fact that more than 90% of people who survive a suicide attempt... do not go on to die by suicide...

 

"...A suicide attempt with a firearm rarely affords a second chance. Attempts involving drugs or cutting, which account for more than 90% of all suicidal acts, prove fatal far less often..."

 

Source

 

Are we supposed to pass laws to prevent suicide happening? Is it a crime to attempt suicide these days?

 

Should laws be passed banning firearms for all because there are people among us whose balance of mind is disturbed?

 

Should the Nanny State hold us all to acount for the various problems of the minority?

 

Should the Nanny State totally take over our entire lives in deciding what's good and not good for us irrespective of personal opinion and thought?

 

Personally i dont care if outlawing guns prevents more suicides. I live my life and deal with my own issues and problems and that's the way it is and always was. I dont care about the problems of others outside of my own family and I certainly dont want laws passed because other people cant handle or deal with their problems.

 

The Nanny State says that we must all bear some guilt or feel guilty about the misfortunes of others and therefore we are all collectively involved because of that.

You want to live in the Nanny State? I dont

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2013 at 21:46 ----------

 

Well that little story fitted in nicely. You do seem to have these little ditties ready at the hip.

 

Does "surprised" mean a lot? Your little story may go to emphasise that 40,000 dead in a year maybe the tip of the iceberg. Who knows, for every one that succeeds, one doesn't. Any takers on another 40,000 gun related incidents on top of the 40k we already have?

 

It all helps decrease the surplus population as Mr Scrooge once remarked

[Halibut]

Are we supposed to pass laws to prevent suicide happening? Is it a crime to attempt suicide these days?

 

Should laws be passed banning firearms for all because there are people among us whose balance of mind is disturbed?

 

Should the Nanny State hold us all to acount for the various problems of the minority?

 

Should the Nanny State totally take over our entire lives in deciding what's good and not good for us irrespective of personal opinion and thought?

 

Personally i dont care if outlawing guns prevents more suicides. I live my life and deal with my own issues and problems and that's the way it is and always was. I dont care about the problems of others outside of my own family and I certainly dont want laws passed because other people cant handle or deal with their problems.

 

The Nanny State says that we must all bear some guilt or feel guilty about the misfortunes of others and therefore we are all collectively involved because of that.

You want to live in the Nanny State? I dont

 

Re the bold - how horribly selfish.

 

Re your last paragraph - common humanity suggests that we should care about the misfortunes of others. It's got naff all to do with the nanny state.

 

I fear that whilst attitudes like yours prevail - i.e. 'I'm alright Jack and sod the rest of you' then your adopted homeland will continue to be stained with the blood of tens of thousands of shooting victims year on year.

[ronthenekred]

<snip>

 

 

Oh dear, why didn't you say in the first place it was all about you?

 

 

Tell us Harleyman (being ex forces) how many times did you jump when ordered to jump because one of your comrades as part of the unit failed in his/her duty?

 

It isn't about guilt or Nanny, it's about responsibility as a collective socially. The State allows and you **** up. The State takes away because of the **** up collectively. You may think in terms of you only (surprising from a military man) but you have a debt to your fellow man too, otherwise why the hell did you fight in a unit in the first place.

 

Sorry I used the word "socially". If it has affected you in anyway I suggest a pill.

[Harleyman]

No, nobody has claimed that. You're either genuinely mistaken or you just made that up.

 

 

You may find there's one or two bereaved families who disagree with you on that

 

In 1983 I was working on a job upgrading the electrical system in an old warehouse. It was a cold March Monday morning snd some of the crew were complaining that the heaters weren't working in the locker room. There was a loft above the room accesible by a vertcal steel wall ladder. I told my helper to go up and check the breaker box.

He got as far as the top and let out a yell and came scrambling down mutterring that there was a man who looked like he had hanged himself.

 

I've seen enough dead bodies before so i went up and had a proper deck myself.

 

Sure enough, death by hanging. One of the employees in the warehouse.

 

You ever seen a body that's been hanging over a period of two days?

 

So.. I've seen suicide close up which is more than most have and deaths by gunfire and mortar fire long before that.

[Halibut]

In 1983 I was working on a job upgrading the electrical system in an old warehouse. It was a cold March Monday morning snd some of the crew were complaining that the heaters weren't working in the locker room. There was a loft above the room accesible by a vertcal steel wall ladder. I told my helper to go up and check the breaker box.

He got as far as the top and let out a yell and came scrambling down mutterring that there was a man who looked like he had hanged himself.

 

I've seen enough dead bodies before so i went up and had a proper deck myself.

 

Sure enough, death by hanging. One of the employees in the warehouse.

 

You ever seen a body that's been hanging over a period of two days?

 

So.. I've seen suicide close up which is more than most have and deaths by gunfire and mortar fire long before that.

 

Bully for you.

Is there supposed to be a point to this story?

[Harleyman]

Oh dear, why didn't you say in the first place it was all about you?

 

 

Tell us Harleyman (being ex forces) how many times did you jump when ordered to jump because one of your comrades as part of the unit failed in his/her duty?

 

It isn't about guilt or Nanny, it's about responsibility as a collective socially. The State allows and you **** up. The State takes away because of the **** up. You may think in terms of you only (surprising from a military man) but you have a debt to your fellow man too, otherwise why the hell did you fight in a unit in the first place.

 

Sorry I used the word "socially". If it has affected you in anyway I suggest a pill.

 

Why should I as a former military man bother to discuss anything relating to that with someone like you?

 

You werent even born when I was in service I'm glad though that I was fortunate enouigh not to have someone like you around me. Your type are the ones who fumble around, drop a loaded weapon and kill or wound somebody.

 

Now you have bored me beyond all reason. Time to wrap it up. Go bore someone else for a change

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2013 at 22:21 ----------

 

Bully for you.

Is there supposed to be a point to this story?

 

Yes there is. You get hardened to it. That's why I shouldn't feel guilty or upset about deaths or suicides by guns or any other means.

 

S**t happens every day. For every one who used a gun to end his/her life there are 50 thousand others who have guns and never did so what's your point?