Great Britain?

[buck]

Sorry that was inappropriate, I didn't get your joke, my apologies.

Your apologies gladly accepted. Life's too short for grudges.

[Hillpig]

Your apologies gladly accepted. Life's too short for grudges.

 

Indeed it is, thank you.

[mjw47]

It is disgraceful to compare this countries history with Germany, a country which has only been in existence for 150years slaughtered the Namibian tribes, started the Franco Prussian , first and second world wars slaughtering millions as it did so. Has brought nothing to civilisation apart for the BMW.

 

The only culpability regarding the end of the empire is Americas. Their profiteering at our expense, the fact that they stood back whilst we fought agsinst the enemies of civilisation, that is culpable.

 

I find it pathetic that you, a person who has benefitted from the freedoms others fought and died for should insult and belittle your own country, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

As my father& uncle fought for, & my first cousin died for this country I do not require your permission to hold any views I may have. You do realize that that was the freedom which they were fighting for don't you?

 

Or did that little point pass you bye?

 

As it happens my views are very similar to my fathers - aside from the view on royalty - now he REALLY detested them, I am much more laid back about their existence.

 

As for comparison with Germany I include their previous incarcerations as Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony etc.

 

Did the Germans ever achieve the complete & utter obliteration of a unique race of people for instance?

Appreciate they gave it damn good go, but didn't succeed, unlike our good selves.

 

Presumably you are aware that the government has just agreed to pay out £19.9 million in compensation to over 5,200 Kenyans tortured & maimed by British armed forces?

This compensation only applies to those who can prove they were victims. Now given the details in Vague Boy's post at 43 when it was stated most of the documentation had been destroyed how many do you think it actually applied to?

Factor in also that given the length of time which has elapsed, how many victims - including President Obama's grandfather - have died?

 

The Government spokesman's concern? That 'This may open the floodgates to many more claims arising from the numerous military operations carried out since the Second War.'

 

Oh yes Hillpig we're a shining example of fairness & decency. No wonder you're proud.

[Michael_W]

So your are actually obtuse, It's not done as a bit of a wind up . Get over it? What exactly am I supposed to be getting over?

 

As to seeing eye to eye with you Brilliant! Please explain why anyone would want to see eye to eye with someone who appears to have opinions on many things, but no facts to back them up.

 

Any point which I have made on this thread has had the truth backing it up. You have failed to make an opposing viewpoint producing facts to make your case.

Had you done so that would have been interesting, & maybe I could have learned something. In a debate, if someone introduces a fact which I was previously unaware of, & it has a material effect on the point discussed, I am always prepared to take it on board & if necessary change my viewpoint.

 

Your method of debate -using the term at it's loosest - appears to be, boo hoo someone is saying nasty things about my country, I must argue with them even though what they said is true.

 

Basically, your just a bit of a whiner with nothing to add to the thread. See eye to eye That's a good one.

 

---------- Post added 10-08-2013 at 23:15 ----------

 

And as for you not being interested in my dual-nationality or Latin I didn't think you would be. You don't strike me as someone who is interested in things.

 

The reason I mentioned them was to explain why my use of the expression 'fathers country' would be understandable. Obviously however it was too subtle for you.

 

You really do like blowing your own trumpet, you gave a list of facts (as you call them), which anyone can get from google or a history website.

The pathetic thing is you then try and justify your 'facts' by harping on about 'yourself' and 'your' family or 'your' whatever, on top of which you keep throwing the insults in .... and so I keep throwing them back

Now what do you actually know about all these English / British historical 'bad deeds', that you clearly have no actual life experience of, but have just read or been told about ?

That's what you need to get over .... you were not there, neither was I, nothing to apologise or feel guilty for, and unless you can keep 'our' history in context ... something you seem to struggle with ( probably because your bitter ) ..... then your opinion (or debate as you call it) holds no more substance than anyone elses .... including mine.

Britain is up there with the 'best' of them when it comes down to how the modern world has developed, yes some of it's history is tainted, but tell me which historical or modern superpower has not got a tainted history ?

Now try posting without repeating the same old stuff about yourself, your family, your successful business or your Anglo / Irish nationality.

Start a thread about all things bad done by the English / British if you like, this one is about putting the 'Great' back in to Great Britain ... well it was supposed to be

 

Oh by the way what are these facts that you have backed up and I haven't ? ?

As for being a whiner, look no further than yourself fella, your the one who has issues with our history and our monarchy etc ... I believe it was you that started posting the negativity and it was you that took nark about me suggesting that you being Irish (sorry Anglo / Irish) was the basis for your overwhelming negative opinion of English / British history !!

[mjw47]

You really do like blowing your own trumpet, you gave a list of facts (as you call them), which anyone can get from google or a history website.

The pathetic thing is you then try and justify your 'facts' by harping on about 'yourself' and 'your' family or 'your' whatever, on top of which you keep throwing the insults in .... and so I keep throwing them back

Now what do you actually know about all these English / British historical 'bad deeds', that you clearly have no actual life experience of, but have just read or been told about ?

That's what you need to get over .... you were not there, neither was I, nothing to apologise for, and unless you can keep 'our' history in context ... something you seem to struggle with ( probably because your bitter ) ..... then your opinion (or debate as you call it) holds no more substance than anyone elses .... including mine.

Britain is up there with the 'best' of them when it comes down to how the modern world has developed, yes some of it's history is tainted, but tell me which historical or modern superpower has not got a tainted history ?

Now try posting without repeating the same old stuff about yourself, your family, your successful business or your Anglo / Irish nationality.

Start a thread about all things bad done by the English / British if you like, this one is about putting the 'Great' back in to Great Britain ... well it was supposed to be

 

So you apparently agree with Hillpig then? Both of you seem to believe that the way to show honour & respect to those people who made enormous sacrifices in order to win our freedom is to never criticize past or present actions of the state. In fact we should only ever speak positively of any historical or current event as that would besmirch our proud history, yes?

 

In other words, we should behave in precisely the manner in which we would have been FORCED to, had our parents generation lost the fight & we were currently living under a totalitarian regime?

 

And the irony in adopting this attitude is completely lost on both of you?

Went straight past, no pause for thought, WHOOOOOSH .

 

As to other country's history being tainted, already dealt with that one, try to keep up.

Not really any of my concern, two - or however many wrongs - do not make a right, remember?

 

My point which seems to have alluded your razor sharp mind, is that in order to make Britain 'Great' again the country should face up to and acknowledge past transgressions, move on & concentrate on the future without the baggage of the past. We should also attempt to resolve the class situation which I believe holds us back. Oh, & improve education for all.

 

Effectively that is what Germany & Austria have done & they seem to be prospering.

 

I am not advocating forgetting our history merely putting it in context & accepting our days of Empire are over & we are all the better for it.

[buck]

It is disgraceful to compare this countries history with Germany, a country which has only been in existence for 150years slaughtered the Namibian tribes, started the Franco Prussian , first and second world wars slaughtering millions as it did so. Has brought nothing to civilisation apart for the BMW.

 

The only culpability regarding the end of the empire is Americas. Their profiteering at our expense, the fact that they stood back whilst we fought agsinst the enemies of civilisation, that is culpable.

 

I find it pathetic that you, a person who has benefitted from the freedoms others fought and died for should insult and belittle your own country, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm currently re-reading Churchill's account of the early part of WW2. In addiion to this I actually lived through the war. We were all concerned at the time about the non intervention of America at the start. But certain facts need to be understood. America was filled with immigrants from Europe and their descendants, a great many of them from Germany, as well as Italy. The country was still recovering from the great depression. There was little enthusiasm for sending their boys out to be killed in a war that they thought was none of their business, so while FDR realized that there was a need to get into it, Congress didn't. There was no army to talk of and they were poorly armed. However he brought lend/lease into being, sending much needed arms to Britain. All this had to be paid for by the taxpayers of America. They had a right to be repaid. Britain finally repaid in total in 2006. Loans made to Britain during the First World War were never repaid at all, and were finally written off. Some of that money could have helped the hungry unemployed during the thirties. I have answered this situation before on the forum and it seems to come up again and again. Its over and done with. They came over, many of them died at Omaha beach, and in countless B17s, and we were glad thay came.

[Michael_W]

So you apparently agree with Hillpig then? Both of you seem to believe that the way to show honour & respect to those people who made enormous sacrifices in order to win our freedom is to never criticize past or present actions of the state. In fact we should only ever speak positively of any historical or current event as that would besmirch our proud history, yes?

 

In other words, we should behave in precisely the manner in which we would have been FORCED to, had our parents generation lost the fight & we were currently living under a totalitarian regime?

 

And the irony in adopting this attitude is completely lost on both of you?

Went straight past, no pause for thought, WHOOOOOSH .

 

As to other country's history being tainted, already dealt with that one, try to keep up.

Not really any of my concern, two - or however many wrongs - do not make a right, remember?

 

My point which seems to have alluded your razor sharp mind, is that in order to make Britain 'Great' again the country should face up to and acknowledge past transgressions, move on & concentrate on the future without the baggage of the past. We should also attempt to resolve the class situation which I believe holds us back. Oh, & improve education for all.

 

Effectively that is what Germany & Austria have done & they seem to be prospering.

 

I am not advocating forgetting our history merely putting it in context & accepting our days of Empire are over & we are all the better for it.

 

I never said we should only speak positively about our history did I ?

I spoke about keeping our history in context, I do get sick though of the anti British sentiment that the apologists on here seem to bring up at every opportunity !

As to the whoosh and keeping up, you really should have heard it first but chose to get all frothy !

As for acknowledging past transgressions and moving on .... we have ... it's the apologists and the socialists that never stop bleating about it, we have little or no right to be proud of our country in their opinion, you only have to read their comments on here, there is plenty of them, your mate halibut and his ilk would happily post those negative views of English / British history too

[janie48]

I'm currently re-reading Churchill's account of the early part of WW2. In addiion to this I actually lived through the war. We were all concerned at the time about the non intervention of America at the start. But certain facts need to be understood. America was filled with immigrants from Europe and their descendants, a great many of them from Germany, as well as Italy. The country was still recovering from the great depression. There was little enthusiasm for sending their boys out to be killed in a war that they thought was none of their business, so while FDR realized that there was a need to get into it, Congress didn't. There was no army to talk of and they were poorly armed. However he brought lend/lease into being, sending much needed arms to Britain. All this had to be paid for by the taxpayers of America. They had a right to be repaid. Britain finally repaid in total in 2006. Loans made to Britain during the First World War were never repaid at all, and were finally written off. Some of that money could have helped the hungry unemployed during the thirties. I have answered this situation before on the forum and it seems to come up again and again. Its over and done with. They came over, many of them died at Omaha beach, and in countless B17s, and we were glad thay came.

What the Americans did to help Britain/Europe in WW11 should never be forgotten, and isn't by the fewer remaining war veterans who are still living.

 

Along with our own, the American war cemeteries in France and Belgium say enough about their sacrifice.

[Jam on it]

just interested in peoples different opinions so the question is what will put the 'great' back into great britain?

 

We need to wake up and live up to our full potential; just look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anglospeak-percentage-knowledge.svg we need to remove ourselves from the EU which is restricting us and open up for business to the entire world.

[Bellwolfrace]

Freedom of speech and to stop been spineless when minority groups have an axe to grind